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on Nov 16, 2021 15:04:11 GMT
Posted: Nov 16, 2021 15:04:11 GMT
While doing some work uncovering details on Fuji's Fujinon-EFC lenses, I ran across a reference to the Tominon E36 line of lenses. Finding info on them is even more difficult. I can't find anything through a search of this Forum. Does anyone know anything about the E36 lenses? I assume they are similar to the EFC lenses -- special purpose stuff like copy machines, faxes, mini-labs, etc.
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on Nov 18, 2021 16:09:28 GMT
Posted: Nov 18, 2021 16:09:28 GMT
While doing some work uncovering details on Fuji's Fujinon-EFC lenses, I ran across a reference to the Tominon E36 line of lenses. Finding info on them is even more difficult. I can't find anything through a search of this Forum. Does anyone know anything about the E36 lenses? I assume they are similar to the EFC lenses -- special purpose stuff like copy machines, faxes, mini-labs, etc. Hi. They're stunning lenses - incredibly sharp. They were produced principally for copying and were used in a lot of high-end film-labs. There were several lenses produced under the E36 MC label and at least a couple under the E36C name, the latter being a pre-set type whereas the E36 MC ones featured an iris, though I don't know how many blades were present. The mount utilised a 39mm Leica thread. I think production only lasted about 5-6 years and had ceased completely by the late 1980s.
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on Nov 18, 2021 23:31:13 GMT
Posted: Nov 18, 2021 23:31:13 GMT
That's good to know. They seem very similar to the Fujinon-EFC lenses. Some of the EFC lenses have apertures -- apparently only to f11 -- and most (all?) appear to have some micro-focusing adjustment/capability. There seem to be several mounts, but I've yet to see any details -- and the sellers seem to provide no details. Some might be 39mm, but many are obviously not. Here's what I've uncovered so far: www.subclub.org/fujinon/efc.htmI'm keeping my eye out for the Tominons, and will report back if I have any luck. Some of the lenses appear to sell for next to nothing, while other sellers are expecting to get HUNDREDS of dollars for them. Reminds me of the Yashica 21mm Atoron unit. I'll also be looking for Minolta and Konica lenses because they made some similar kinds of lenses.
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on Mar 6, 2022 18:11:58 GMT
Posted: Mar 6, 2022 18:11:58 GMT
While doing some work uncovering details on Fuji's Fujinon-EFC lenses, I ran across a reference to the Tominon E36 line of lenses. Finding info on them is even more difficult. I can't find anything through a search of this Forum. Does anyone know anything about the E36 lenses? I assume they are similar to the EFC lenses -- special purpose stuff like copy machines, faxes, mini-labs, etc. Hi. They're stunning lenses - incredibly sharp. They were produced principally for copying and were used in a lot of high-end film-labs. There were several lenses produced under the E36 MC label and at least a couple under the E36C name, the latter being a pre-set type whereas the E36 MC ones featured an iris, though I don't know how many blades were present. The mount utilised a 39mm Leica thread. I think production only lasted about 5-6 years and had ceased completely by the late 1980s. Hi, that's really interesting. Thank you so much for that information - that's very helpful and contains some specifics I didn't know before. These lenses are among my favorite ones of all time and I've tried to gather as much informatin on them as I was able to during the last two years. Here's a quick summary of what I was able to find out so far: There are actually more than just the E36 lenses... there are two (Copal) E18C ones with fixed aperture in 35 and 40 mm (there's an article/review on closeuphotography about them), then theres a whole range of E36(C) lenses (many different focal lengths), then there are the E66(C) lenses (there are only a couple of them) and the E90(C) with longer focal lengths. Some of the E36 lenses also appear as Tominon-MC, either with or without the E36 in the name and they seem to be the newer ones, at least from their appearance. I'm actually working with Mark (user 169 on here) on his DELTA alt lens list, and we're still in the process of adding details to the whole range of Tomioka made EXX(C) lenses. The E36 and E90 ones with aperture have 8 (straight) blades and the E66 have a round aperture with more blades. I've read two different things on their original use: 1.) that they were used in a kind of minilab and 2.) that they were high-resolution scanner lenses but I wasn't able to verify any of that so far. Do you know in what kind of device they were used in the high-end film-labs you mentioned? I've used both the Tomioka EXX(C) lenses (extensively) as well as the Fujinon-EFC ones for my photographic experiments here: simple.joy flickr I've designed a simple adapter for the Fujinon-EFC lenses but I haven't received it yet, because I can't do any CNC work myself but I agree that they seem somewhat similar and may be related in some way to the Tomioka ones. Another lens family which has some resemblance as well as very similar mounting devices (from the looks of it) are the "Noritsu" ones with variable focal length (38-60, 60-90 mm etc.) that I also used quite a bit for my macro/close-up experiments. They're maybe not quite up to the aforementioned Tomioka lenses, but pretty great as well and very affordable... that is, if you're able to mount them. Thanks for creating this thread and the interesting information you shared on these lenses!
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on Mar 6, 2022 19:00:04 GMT
Posted: Mar 6, 2022 19:00:04 GMT
Hi simplejoyWelcome to the Forum. Thank you very much for the additional info in your post. I don't recall the equipment used in the high-end labs which used those lenses but I'll check back through my records to see if there are any identifying data there. It's also very interesting to hear about the mount you've created and are having made; please keep us posted on it as there may be people here who could be very interested...
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on Mar 7, 2022 0:42:39 GMT
Last Edit: Mar 7, 2022 0:43:26 GMT by simplejoy
Hi simplejoy Welcome to the Forum. Thank you very much for the additional info in your post. I don't recall the equipment used in the high-end labs which used those lenses but I'll check back through my records to see if there are any identifying data there. It's also very interesting to hear about the mount you've created and are having made; please keep us posted on it as there may be people here who could be very interested... Thank you for the welcome! That would be great - thanks a lot! I really appreciate anything you can provide on these lenses, because they really are very special to me and neither of the people I bought mine from could tell me anything about their origin. I'll make sure to provide an update when my EFC adapter shows up. However I have to add, that I'm using almost all of my lenses on a bellows, so the approach is perhaps not the best or easiest one for different mounting solutions. xkaes So, the subclub site is yours? That's a wonderful and incredibly interesting site with lots of information - excellent work there and thank you for sharing your findings! I'm so glad to see that you've done some research on the EFC-lenses as well. You have listed quite a lot of them, but I think there are a number of additional ones, even though I don't have a complete list. I can tell you two of them though, because I own them: a 35 mm f/5.6 with variable aperture (5.6 to 11) and one that is (interestingly enough) labeled Fujinon-EFC II 64.5 f/6, also with a variable aperture (from 5.6 to 11, so not 6 like on the front!). All of mine have the same mounting thread, however I think their lens construction could be quite different from a quick reflection count, but I'm not quite sure about their optical layout yet. I'm also conflicted about the best direction to mount them in... I tried them the way you show on your bellows image at first, but actually had better results when I reversed them. I only tried it with one of them though, so it certainly requires some additional testing, as soon as I have my adapter ready.
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on Mar 7, 2022 23:45:12 GMT
Last Edit: Mar 8, 2022 1:52:12 GMT by xkaes
I'm the originator of the SUBCLUB, but not the only organizer or moderator. There are only certain areas I'm particularly knowledgeable about. There are Minox experts, Tessina experts, 110 camera experts, HIT experts, etc. -- areas I'm clueless about. The FUJINON-EFC lenses are recent additions that someone clued me in on -- so I added them, not to the SUBCLUB, but to my FUJINON Large Format Lens website. www.subclub.org/fujinon/The only enlarging lenses on the SUBCLUB are ones designed for small negatives -- 38mm or shorter. I recently updated the EFC lenses list. There are now 15 models -- and you've discovered TWO MORE. Thanks. www.subclub.org/fujinon/efc.htmI had not heard of the EFC II lens, and I must assume there are more than just one. Do you know anything about what the II means?
If you could send me pictures of your EFC lenses, I would be very grateful.
And I really enjoyed your FLICKR setup. I dabble in that arena of photography myself -- although I'm not as well-equipped as you. Since you have several FUJI optics, you might find my FUJINON Large Format material of interest.
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on Mar 8, 2022 12:53:11 GMT
Posted: Mar 8, 2022 12:53:11 GMT
I'm the originator of the SUBCLUB, but not the only organizer or moderator. There are only certain areas I'm particularly knowledgeable about. There are Minox experts, Tessina experts, 110 camera experts, HIT experts, etc. -- areas I'm clueless about. The FUJINON-EFC lenses are recent additions that someone clued me in on -- so I added them, not to the SUBCLUB, but to my FUJINON Large Format Lens website. www.subclub.org/fujinon/The only enlarging lenses on the SUBCLUB are ones designed for small negatives -- 38mm or shorter. I recently updated the EFC lenses list. There are now 15 models -- and you've discovered TWO MORE. Thanks. www.subclub.org/fujinon/efc.htmI had not heard of the EFC II lens, and I must assume there are more than just one. Do you know anything about what the II means? If you could send me pictures of your EFC lenses, I would be very grateful. And I really enjoyed your FLICKR setup. I dabble in that arena of photography myself -- although I'm not as well-equipped as you. Since you have several FUJI optics, you might find my FUJINON Large Format material of interest.
Thanks for the clarification and the Fujinon large format infos you've assembled - I'll take a look! Not to get sidetracked too much, but I love a lot of the Fujinon lenses. I have the majority of the Fujinon-EX enlarging lenses (which are among the very best), and two large format ones, a "Fujinon-SWD 65 mm f/5.6“ and a „Fujinon-W 135 mm f/5.6“ both of which I've adapted to my bellows system. The EFC lenses I own show a significant lack of contrast, but I think they have a lot of potential, if adapted properly. I have no idea what the difference between the regular EFC and EFC II is unfortunately, and because they all look kind of different anyway it's hard to tell if there have been changes compared to a prior version. I just assume they are newer iterations for now. Maybe some clear differences will show up once I'm able to shoot them side by side. Here are the images. You're welcome to use them of course, if you want. If you only need a detail image, you should be able to download the full size image via the flickr-link. Really glad you like my little lens-experiments - thank you very much! Fujinon-EFC II 64.5 mm by simple.joy, auf Flickr
Fujinon-EFC 35 mm by simple.joy, auf Flickr
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on Mar 10, 2022 14:33:17 GMT
Last Edit: Mar 10, 2022 15:41:32 GMT by simplejoy
To get back to the original topic, here is how they look like: Tomioka/Copal/Tominon-MC E36(C) lenses by simple.joy, auf Flickr There are a couple of different designs (even among lenses of the same focal length) and many different types of inscriptions, but I would assume that all of them were made by Tomioka. There seems to be a connection to both Copal as well as Noritsu, so it's a real possibility that they were used in devices made by one or both of those companies. I have never tried to reach out to Kyocera, but I somehow doubt that they would be willing or even able to respond to any question in regards to these lenses. So if anyone stumbles across this and knows anything, I'm still highly interested in any information you can share. And this is one of the Noritsu lenses that I mentioned before:
Unassuming zooming? by simple.joy, auf Flickr Perhaps they were the successor of the E36/E66/E90 lenses? They cover more than the whole range of them and more with a handful of lenses because they have a variable focal length). Again - that's all speculation unfortunately, but Robert OToole mentions in his excellent comparison article on the Tominon-MC 48 mm that those were replaced by zoom-lenses. Maybe that's what was meant by this information, maybe not. In any case it would be very interesting to know if these variable focal length Noritsu lenses were also made by Tomioka or someone else.
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on Mar 10, 2022 23:26:15 GMT
Posted: Mar 10, 2022 23:26:15 GMT
Thanks for displaying these. Very interesting.
Unlike the Fujinon-EFC lenses, these all look like they have a standard screw thread. Is that correct? That could help in determining their intended use -- camera vs enlarger vs shutter vs machine vs etc. The zooming ability suggests that it would need easy access.
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on Mar 11, 2022 0:34:43 GMT
Posted: Mar 11, 2022 0:34:43 GMT
Yes - that's correct. All of the E36/E66/E90 lenses have an M39 mount while most of the Noritsu lenses have a 52x0.75 mm screw thread and some of the longer focal lengths a 65x0.75 mm one. They are screwed into a metal tube which is mounted onto a kind of rectangular lensboard. The tube looks very similar to the ones the E36 lenses use. You can see a short one on the left side here: CT Knots Setup4 by simple.joy, auf Flickr The adapter to M39 is on the right side. The tubes are very similar albeit not completely identical, as they have slightly different diameters and threads.The EFC lenses have tubes as well, but they're cone-shaped, look completely different (way heavier, different material) and have that unique thread of course. So overall I'd say the Tomioka EXX(C) and these Noritsu lenses do have more in common, than the Fujinon does with either of them. I was calling the Noritsu lenses 'zoom lenses' before I realized that most of the ones I have were fixed by a screw... That's why I think it's more likely that they were used as a certain focal length, but depending on the machine or slot they were used in, they could be adjusted exactly for the given need and just fixed at that particular focal length (let's say 64.5 mm, like on of the Fujinons), without having to create a wide array of different fixed focal length lenses (like it seems to be the case with the Tomioka EXX(C) ones, the Fujinon-EFC or the Kodak Color-Printing Ektars for example...). I can't be sure on that one though. When adapted they can be used as zoom lenses, but, it's not as easy accessing that function + the aperture as it is with a 'real' zoom enlarging lens.
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on Mar 11, 2022 2:37:06 GMT
Last Edit: Mar 11, 2022 2:38:38 GMT by xkaes
I'll let you know when I get lucky and add some of these lenses to my collection. It might be a while, though. I have enough to deal with at this point -- and I'm holding out for GOOD deals. There are a few EFC lenses on EBAY right now. They have been there a while, and way over what I'll pay! The crocuses will be blooming here pretty soon. I hope they are as striking as they were last year -- a 50mm Minolta bellows lens:
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on Mar 12, 2022 23:39:01 GMT
Last Edit: Mar 13, 2022 21:50:51 GMT by simplejoy
I'll let you know when I get lucky and add some of these lenses to my collection. It might be a while, though. I have enough to deal with at this point -- and I'm holding out for GOOD deals. There are a few EFC lenses on EBAY right now. They have been there a while, and way over what I'll pay! The crocuses will be blooming here pretty soon. I hope they are as striking as they were last year -- a 50mm Minolta bellows lens:
I get that... particularly because you don't exactly know what you're getting with them unfortunately! Many of these lenses were not treated well, in whatever application they were used in. If you've embedded an image in your post, it doesn't seem to show for me unfortunately.
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on Mar 28, 2022 18:35:38 GMT
Posted: Mar 28, 2022 18:35:38 GMT
I just found a listing of Tominon Enlarging Lenses that could be bought in the UK in 1981:
Up to 24x36mm:
50mm Tominon EL f2.8-16 40mm WA Tominon EL f3.5-16
Over 24x36mm:
75mm Tominon f4.5-22 90mm Tominon EL f5.6-32 105mm Tominon EL f5.6-45 60mm WA Tominon f4-22
There are a few in the listing that I was unaware of - some hunting to do methinks.....
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on Mar 29, 2022 10:00:07 GMT
Last Edit: Mar 29, 2022 10:19:32 GMT by simplejoy
I just found a listing of Tominon Enlarging Lenses that could be bought in the UK in 1981: Up to 24x36mm:50mm Tominon EL f2.8-16 40mm WA Tominon EL f3.5-16 Over 24x36mm:75mm Tominon f4.5-22 90mm Tominon EL f5.6-32 105mm Tominon EL f5.6-45 60mm WA Tominon f4-22 There are a few in the listing that I was unaware of - some hunting to do methinks..... While they're awesome lenses as well, they're actually called Osawa Tominon EL (and also sold as Hoya, Bogen, Omicron, Bemecron etc.) and they are different from the Tominon-MC or E36 lenses discussed here. What they have in common is that they are also made by Tomioka of course. They did quite well in the lens tests Mark (whom I work with on the deltalenses.com project) made: deltalenses.com/index.php/hall-of-fame-near-distance-f4-f8-average/I don't have all but most of them: I particularly like the 60 mm variant which is (as far as I know) the only enlarging lens with a Biogon design.
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