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on Mar 29, 2022 13:09:06 GMT
Posted: Mar 29, 2022 13:09:06 GMT
Hi simplejoyWhat a superb collection of lenses! Marvellous.
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on Mar 29, 2022 23:27:50 GMT
Posted: Mar 29, 2022 23:27:50 GMT
Hi simplejoy What a superb collection of lenses! Marvellous. Thank you - it's actually a little bit more complete now, because I really have a weak spot for these lenses.
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on Mar 30, 2022 14:09:33 GMT
Last Edit: Mar 30, 2022 14:19:34 GMT by xkaes
I just found a listing of Tominon Enlarging Lenses that could be bought in the UK in 1981: Up to 24x36mm:50mm Tominon EL f2.8-16 40mm WA Tominon EL f3.5-16 Over 24x36mm:75mm Tominon f4.5-22 90mm Tominon EL f5.6-32 105mm Tominon EL f5.6-45 60mm WA Tominon f4-22 There are a few in the listing that I was unaware of - some hunting to do methinks..... While they're awesome lenses as well, they're actually called Osawa Tominon EL (and also sold as Hoya, Bogen, Omicron, Bemecron etc.) and they are different from the Tominon-MC or E36 lenses discussed here. What they have in common is that they are also made by Tomioka of course. They did quite well in the lens tests Mark (whom I work with on the deltalenses.com project) made: deltalenses.com/index.php/hall-of-fame-near-distance-f4-f8-average/I don't have all but most of them: I particularly like the 60 mm variant which is (as far as I know) the only enlarging lens with a Biogon design.
I still find it odd that most of Tomioka's enlarging lenses were never sold under the YASHICA label -- especially since they were sold under other labels, such as Osawa and Hoya. You would think that also selling them under the Yashica label would have helped sales.
As a side note, OSAWA and BELL & HOWELL were basically the same photographic marketing/distributor -- B&H in the US, and OSAWA in Asia. Many of their photographic items were sold under their labels, such as the Tokina 650mm f8.5 CAT -- it was only sold under the B&H, Osawa, and Soligor (another photographic marketing/distributor) labels, but never Tokina!
Makes me wonder what Tokina lenses were sold under the B&H label -- as well as OSAWA. Any enlarging lenses?
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on Mar 30, 2022 14:35:10 GMT
Posted: Mar 30, 2022 14:35:10 GMT
You're right - it would be very interesting to find out more of the story behind these lenses and the brands they used... There are also a couple of other restrictions though because as far as I know:
- only the 40 and 60 mm lenses were sold as Bogen - the 40 mm and 60 mm were not sold as Omicron/Bemecron - the 40 mm and 60 mm were not sold as Beseler ColorPro
So perhaps there was some exclusive deals in place with Hoya/Osawa and Bogen for certain lenses. I don't know. Also, your listing doesn't mention the 135 mm lens if I'm not mistaken.
I've never seen any enlarging lens under the B&H label, but maybe there are some...
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on Mar 30, 2022 15:15:16 GMT
Last Edit: Mar 30, 2022 15:21:49 GMT by lumiworx
I've always assumed that B&H was retail only, with discounts 'to the trade' for local/traveling pro photographers. They take trades and buy/sell gear, and have a service group for events and seminars, but unless they have a separate company, I don't think I've ever seen them mentioned as a distributor or maker of anything... or even having their own branding of anything beyond accessories. They started in the 70's as a photo store and eventually expanded to other creative media product types, and are still one of the few companies that send out bound paper catalogs. Osawa was a distributor in the traditional sense - Mamiya was one of their main brands - and they also had a line of Osawa branded lenses, like Vivitar did, as a rebranding of other makes, but also manufactured some of their own lenses in-house. I think I read an article long ago that they had either invested as a partner in Mamiya, or had some other financial interest in the company, but I don't remember the specifics. Unlike Vivitar and their Series 1 premium offerings, I think Osawa's were middle-tier and not really sought after for performance. How do the Osawa branded enlarging lenses do for IQ compared to the rest?
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on Mar 30, 2022 16:17:14 GMT
Posted: Mar 30, 2022 16:17:14 GMT
I've always assumed that B&H was retail only, with discounts 'to the trade' for local/traveling pro photographers. They take trades and buy/sell gear, and have a service group for events and seminars, but unless they have a separate company, I don't think I've ever seen them mentioned as a distributor or maker of anything... or even having their own branding of anything beyond accessories. They started in the 70's as a photo store and eventually expanded to other creative media product types, and are still one of the few companies that send out bound paper catalogs. Osawa was a distributor in the traditional sense - Mamiya was one of their main brands - and they also had a line of Osawa branded lenses, like Vivitar did, as a rebranding of other makes, but also manufactured some of their own lenses in-house. I think I read an article long ago that they had either invested as a partner in Mamiya, or had some other financial interest in the company, but I don't remember the specifics. Unlike Vivitar and their Series 1 premium offerings, I think Osawa's were middle-tier and not really sought after for performance. How do the Osawa branded enlarging lenses do for IQ compared to the rest? Thanks a lot for the additional information and connections. The Osawa Tominon ELs (and variants) actually seem to comfortably sit among the higher end enlarging lenses, according to our tests (https://deltalenses.com/index.php/hall/) and most accounts online! I‘m not really doing any real testing myself, but I like using them for shooting and most of them are pretty great and versatile. The only one I found somewhat lacking was the 105 mm Omicron but it could be an issue with the sample as well.
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on Mar 30, 2022 16:23:31 GMT
Last Edit: Mar 30, 2022 16:49:18 GMT by xkaes
Perhaps you have seen the "BHMC" trade mark. It stands for Bell & Howell / Mamiya Corp. It was the parent company. Bell & Howell did the marketing/distribution in the US/North America, and Osawa did it in Asia.
Here's the background: Back in the 1960's, the Bell & Howell:Mamiya Company ("BHMC") was owned jointly by Bell & Howell Co. (in the USA) and J. Osawa & Co (in Japan). These two companies were distributors/marketers of photo gear -- just like Ponder & Best (Vivitar), Honeywell (Pentax), Allied Impex (Soligor), EPOI (Nikon), and Berkey (Rodenstock). In the 1970’s, Mamiya/Sekor cameras and lenses were marketed by the then-named Ponder & Best. (Sekor is an “abbreviation” of the Setagaya Optical Company which made the lenses for the Mamiya/Sekor cameras and was dropped from the name when the two companies merged.) After P&B changed their name to Vivitar -- and only sold products labeled “Vivitar” -- Osawa was chosen to be the exclusive worldwide distributor of the then-called "Mamiya" cameras and lenses. But just like Ponder & Best and Vivitar, and other distributors, Osawa did not just market Mamiya cameras and lenses. Among the other things they did were marketing the many lenses made by Setagaya -- AKA Sekor -- (as well as other optical companies) for Mamiya cameras -- but also for other camera companies (just like Vivitar and Soligor did). Some of these lenses were labeled “Osawa” which has led many to mistakenly believe that Osawa was an optical manufacturer – just like many mistakenly believe that Vivitar and Soligor are lens manufacturers. But In 1979, Bell & Howell decided to withdraw from the consumer photography business. It then transferred its interest in BHMC to J. Osawa & Co. Osawa marketed lenses under the name “Osawa” – made by various optical companies, such as Tokina. They also marketed cameras such as Mamiya. In 1984, plans for the expansion of Mamiya's popular Z-series of 35mm cameras were halted when Mamiya's main international distributor, Osawa (formerly BHMC) declared bankruptcy. It was the largest financial failure in Japanese history -- until the recent TAKATA bankruptcy -- and led to Mamiya declaring bankruptcy, and then restructuring. Allied Impex marketed lenses under various names, typically “Soligor” – made by various optical companies, most notably, Tokina. They also marketed cameras such as Miranda and Soligor. Bell & Howell marketed lenses under the Bell & Howell name, as well as “Canon” – made by various optical companies, including Tokina. They also marketed cameras such as Canon and Bell & Howell. They left the photography business in 1979.
Enlarging lenses? Osawa, sure. B&H? Mamiya? Sekor? I don't recall any, but who knows?
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on Mar 30, 2022 17:24:07 GMT
Posted: Mar 30, 2022 17:24:07 GMT
Perhaps you have seen the "BHMC" trade mark. It stands for Bell & Howell / Mamiya Corp. It was the parent company. Bell & Howell did the marketing/distribution in the US/North America, and Osawa did it in Asia.
Here's the background: Back in the 1960's, the Bell & Howell:Mamiya Company ("BHMC") was owned jointly by Bell & Howell Co. (in the USA) and J. Osawa & Co (in Japan). These two companies were distributors/marketers of photo gear -- just like Ponder & Best (Vivitar), Honeywell (Pentax), Allied Impex (Soligor), EPOI (Nikon), and Berkey (Rodenstock). In the 1970’s, Mamiya/Sekor cameras and lenses were marketed by the then-named Ponder & Best. (Sekor is an “abbreviation” of the Setagaya Optical Company which made the lenses for the Mamiya/Sekor cameras and was dropped from the name when the two companies merged.) After P&B changed their name to Vivitar -- and only sold products labeled “Vivitar” -- Osawa was chosen to be the exclusive worldwide distributor of the then-called "Mamiya" cameras and lenses. But just like Ponder & Best and Vivitar, and other distributors, Osawa did not just market Mamiya cameras and lenses. Among the other things they did were marketing the many lenses made by Setagaya -- AKA Sekor -- (as well as other optical companies) for Mamiya cameras -- but also for other camera companies (just like Vivitar and Soligor did). Some of these lenses were labeled “Osawa” which has led many to mistakenly believe that Osawa was an optical manufacturer – just like many mistakenly believe that Vivitar and Soligor are lens manufacturers. But In 1979, Bell & Howell decided to withdraw from the consumer photography business. It then transferred its interest in BHMC to J. Osawa & Co. Osawa marketed lenses under the name “Osawa” – made by various optical companies, such as Tokina. They also marketed cameras such as Mamiya. In 1984, plans for the expansion of Mamiya's popular Z-series of 35mm cameras were halted when Mamiya's main international distributor, Osawa (formerly BHMC) declared bankruptcy. It was the largest financial failure in Japanese history -- until the recent TAKATA bankruptcy -- and led to Mamiya declaring bankruptcy, and then restructuring. Allied Impex marketed lenses under various names, typically “Soligor” – made by various optical companies, most notably, Tokina. They also marketed cameras such as Miranda and Soligor. Bell & Howell marketed lenses under the Bell & Howell name, as well as “Canon” – made by various optical companies, including Tokina. They also marketed cameras such as Canon and Bell & Howell. They left the photography business in 1979.
Enlarging lenses? Osawa, sure. B&H? Mamiya? Sekor? I don't recall any, but who knows?
That's very interesting as well - didn't know some of these connections. Many thanks! Even though many of them don't have complete information yet, we have assembled over 1200 entries in the deltalenses enlarger lens section so far and I think we haven't found anything on either B&H (there are some projector lenses though...) or Sekor and as far as Mamiya is concerned there's only the Enlahead... Does it feature a Mamiya lens? There are quite a few Soligor lenses though.
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on Mar 30, 2022 18:21:57 GMT
Posted: Mar 30, 2022 18:21:57 GMT
Mamiya's lenses were made by Setagaya -- much like Tomioka and Yashica -- but Setagaya made lenses for other companies as well, much like Tomioka did for Polaroid, etc.
Setagaya made lenses for Miranda as well, and lots were labeled as SOLIGOR and are seen on Miranda as well as Mamiya cameras. But Soligor lenses were made by other optical companies too -- complicating matters. Soligor C/D lenses are top notch -- and made by different companies (just like the Vivitar Series 1 lenses). I have a great Soligor 650mm f8.5 C/D CAT made by Tokina. Soligor used a numbering system on their serial numbers to indicate the manufacturer.
I can't say for sure, but I assume Setagaya made the Mamiya ENLAHEADs -- there were five versions, as I recall.
There were two enlarging lenses sold under the Soligor name, but they were also sold under the AICO, Perfex, Samigon, Pritz, Coligar, and Vivitar labels. Did Setagaya made them? I would not be surprised.
Perhaps someone has tried to untangle the plate-of-Japanese-lenses, but I doubt it.
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on Mar 30, 2022 22:17:36 GMT
Posted: Mar 30, 2022 22:17:36 GMT
Again - thank you so much! It's so great seeing that there are a couple of people interested in this. We're in the process of attempting that (untangling parts of it) at deltalenses with a couple of articles, however most of it is still in its initial stages... and I'm actually trying to cover an extremely underrated German maker first. Mark started with AICO - which you also mentioned - and Tomioka is definitely on my list in the future, as it's probably my favorite lens maker of all time. If you're interested in providing information or a whole article yourself, or write something on your own site, so we can cross-reference it in the respective articles or lens pages - I really appreciate any effort to shed some light on these subjects, as they really seem to be ignored almost everywhere, despite some of these lenses being extraordinary! As I mentioned before, I haven't used the Osawa Tominon lenses a lot, but here are a couple of shots I made with it: The altar of buttons: before the ritual by simple.joy, auf Flickr (Osawa Tominon EL 60 mm f/4 - reversed) Puzzled by this world by simple.joy, auf Flickr Need a blanket? by simple.joy, auf Flickr
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on Sept 13, 2023 13:08:40 GMT
Last Edit: Sept 13, 2023 13:09:52 GMT by simplejoy
Hi simplejoy It's also very interesting to hear about the mount you've created and are having made; please keep us posted on it as there may be people here who could be very interested... So... while I'm more than a year late (sorry for that!), I can finally give you an update on the Fujinon-EFC Adapters: Here's my plan for those and this is how they look on the lens: As you can see this lens has two of those adapter rings on it, because the genius I am, I managed to get them stuck that way almost immediately... 😅 Regardless, it still works fine and I can mount these lenses in both directions now onto my lensboard, while also having the option of adding a.) a tube lens for macro work b.) a lens hood via the additional 58x0.75 mm thread on each side.
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on Sept 13, 2023 13:18:31 GMT
Posted: Sept 13, 2023 13:18:31 GMT
A bit more on topic (still not completely, I'm afraid)... I also finally managed to get a first version of my article on Noritsu lenses online. You can find it here: deltalenses.com/the-makers-noritsu/While a number of different manufacturers - including big names like Nikon or Tamron - were responsible for making some of these lenses, there are also a couple (particularly the excellent 32 mm one) which could have been made by Tomioka/Yashica for Noritsu. This lens was evidently used alongside some of the Tominon-MC E36 lenses this thread is about, so it wouldn't be a surprise. If you find it interesting enough to take a look, I would really appreciate any feedback in regards to the article, particularly, if you have additional information. As mentioned it still is a work-in-progress containing lots of speculation, so I hope to find some more evidence in the future. In the meantime here are some of the images made with the Noritsu lenses, so you have an idea why I found them interesting enough to take on the subject: Pinch watching by simple.joy, on Flickr You're a light collector as well? by simple.joy, on Flickr Sing our names in unison by simple.joy, on Flickr Newlywets by simple.joy, on Flickr Grass-ping life by simple.joy, on Flickr Ante up! by simple.joy, on Flickr Protection no longer in production by simple.joy, on Flickr
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on Sept 13, 2023 18:49:25 GMT
Posted: Sept 13, 2023 18:49:25 GMT
Hello simplejoy and welcome back! Some exceptional work has evidently been going on during the last year; pity I no longer use Fuji's standard digital format as that adapter looks very promising. Your article on Noritsu made very interesting reading; I'm not sure I can add much yet as it's all new to me but I'll have a root around...
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on Sept 13, 2023 20:40:08 GMT
Posted: Sept 13, 2023 20:40:08 GMT
Hello simplejoy and welcome back! Some exceptional work has evidently been going on during the last year; pity I no longer use Fuji's standard digital format as that adapter looks very promising. Your article on Noritsu made very interesting reading; I'm not sure I can add much yet as it's all new to me but I'll have a root around... Thank you very much - I'm glad you find it interesting! I absolutely get it... adapting Noritsu lenses is a niche among a niche, so I don't have high hopes that a lot of evidence will show up. However there must be quite a number of people around who have either worked on those machines or had some business contact with Noritsu or one of their suppliers mentioned in the article in golden minilab era, so I'm hoping maybe one or two may stumble upon the article somewhere in the future and consider to add or correct a couple of things. I really hope you (and a couple of others here who are experts on Yashica/Tomioka may be able to help me with a couple of open questions I still have regarding the E36 lenses, this thread is about though. For example, do you have an idea during which time period the shared Tomioka factory (Zeiss/Yashica) operated and if there was indeed some form of cooperation/exchange of knowledge between Tomioka/Zeiss during that time or if that is mostly a myth created to push prices of certain lenses? That would be very helpful indeed!
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on Sept 14, 2023 15:32:56 GMT
Posted: Sept 14, 2023 15:32:56 GMT
Thank you very much - I'm glad you find it interesting! I absolutely get it... adapting Noritsu lenses is a niche among a niche, so I don't have high hopes that a lot of evidence will show up. However there must be quite a number of people around who have either worked on those machines or had some business contact with Noritsu or one of their suppliers mentioned in the article in golden minilab era, so I'm hoping maybe one or two may stumble upon the article somewhere in the future and consider to add or correct a couple of things. I really hope you (and a couple of others here who are experts on Yashica/Tomioka may be able to help me with a couple of open questions I still have regarding the E36 lenses, this thread is about though. For example, do you have an idea during which time period the shared Tomioka factory (Zeiss/Yashica) operated and if there was indeed some form of cooperation/exchange of knowledge between Tomioka/Zeiss during that time or if that is mostly a myth created to push prices of certain lenses? That would be very helpful indeed! I think that biggles3 is likely to have some accurate dates on how long the Zeiss / Yashica partnership lasted. As the "Made in..." stampings on the Zeiss Contax lenses show both Japan and West Germany as points of origin, there were indeed (at least) 2 plants running at the same time and making the Contax lens lines. I'm fairly certain that most, if not all, of the glass used in both country's plants originated in Japan, so not only was the chemical composition of the glass well known to Yashica, but also the composition of the coatings and the method for applying them. Essentially the coatings are ' baked on' at the end of the polishing process, so there's no way to get around them not knowing quite a bit about the materials and techniques. I've read several Zeiss articles over the years that explicitly mention that there were official Zeiss advisors and quality control personnel on-site at the plant(s) in Japan to monitor and improve quality control of their branded products, and I have to assume they would have included people with backgrounds in mechanical engineering and optical sciences, and perhaps even metallurgical if they needed that kind of supervisory roles to be present. Between material and process knowledge, I'd be inclined to wonder if there was any area where Yashica wasn't aware of most of the 'secrets', except for the financial and administrative aspects.
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