Group: Moderator
Post: 2,040 (563 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Jul 27, 2020 13:36:24 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 27, 2020 0:21:42 GMT by biggles3: 2020 equivalent pricing added for 500mm f4.5 Mirotar
I thought it might be fun to compare the size of the two best 500mm mirror lenses ever made.
As you know, the Yashica ML 500mm f8 is one of the smallest of its type but the same can't quite be said of the Zeiss f4.5 Mirotar version...
Zeiss 500 4.5_Yashica ML 500 f8
It's amazing what a difference that less than 2 stops can make to the construction of a lens. I have a Hartblei 500 f5.6 (for the Contax 645) and it too is dwarfed by the big Zeiss but it's not quite as sharp as the Yashica or Zeiss.
They don't make 'em like that any more (indeed Zeiss only made 215 between 1963 and the 1980s). My one was modified by Zeiss from its original Contarex mount to the new Contax/Yashica mount in the late 1970s.
And as a footnote, I see there is a Zeiss 1000 f5.6 Mirotar currently for sale at just over £22,000 which is quite cheap (!) considering what it cost back in 1977 (2020 equivalent price is over £85,000). If I take the 1985 price for my lens, (the last price I found in a German trade list), in today's money it would have cost around 13,800 Euros, £12,200 or $16,500. With modern manufacturing costs, I hate to think how much it would actually cost to build one! |
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Jul 27, 2020 16:26:10 GMT
Posted: Jul 27, 2020 16:26:10 GMT
I would have expected some increase in glass size to get the added speed, but nothing that dramatic. Having never seen the 2 side by side until this shot, my head swims with what it must be like to handle that Zeiss. Did the Mirotars come with gym memberships and personal trainers?
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Jul 27, 2020 17:25:58 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 28, 2020 0:39:41 GMT by xkaes
And the Zeiss 1000mm f5.6 Mirotar makes the 500mm 4.5 look like a dwarf!
I wonder how many of THEM were made!?!?!?
Here's one on EBAY right now for mere pennies:
OK, I mean LOTS of pennies.
|
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,040 (563 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Jul 27, 2020 19:23:28 GMT
Posted: Jul 27, 2020 19:23:28 GMT
I would have expected some increase in glass size to get the added speed, but nothing that dramatic. Having never seen the 2 side by side until this shot, my head swims with what it must be like to handle that Zeiss. Did the Mirotars come with gym memberships and personal trainers? Yep - you get a free hernia with every lens... |
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,040 (563 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Nov 21, 2020 14:42:15 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 21, 2020 14:45:21 GMT by biggles3
And the Zeiss 1000mm f5.6 Mirotar makes the 500mm 4.5 look like a dwarf!
I wonder how many of THEM were made!?!?!?
Here's one on EBAY right now for mere pennies:
OK, I mean LOTS of pennies.
It looks like no one has deep enough pockets as it's now reduced in price... |
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Nov 21, 2020 18:37:31 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 21, 2020 18:41:31 GMT by lumiworx
It looks like no one has deep enough pockets as it's now reduced in price... And it has a new page after relisting at 22k/26k Euro/USD. If you want someting a tad bigger (2540mm, f/8), and have a few more pennies ($32k USD), you could go with the Jonel 100. It has an 8.5 inch throat, so it will swallow most of the cameras we'd all use. Maybe you could use the Mirotar as a teleconvertor for it, and get a useable camera mount at the same time. |
|
Group: Member
Post: 132 (14 liked)
Join date: September 2017
Status:
|
|
on Nov 22, 2020 12:24:30 GMT
Posted: Nov 22, 2020 12:24:30 GMT
I once was photographed by the GDR border police from their watchtower with a 5.6/1000 - a huge thing, indeed.
I fired back with a cheap 6.3/400 ... even this seemed to make them nervous and their heads and the big lens disappeared in a sudden.
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Nov 22, 2020 14:18:53 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 22, 2020 14:23:16 GMT by xkaes
I'm happy with my Honeywell 1250mm LUMITAR f10 CAT. It's up there with Minolta's 1000mm f6.3. Sure it's slower, but it was a lot cheaper. I got mine for about $100 -- because no one knows about it. It is basically a stripped-down Celestron C-5 with a t-mount -- and a black leatherette covering (you can see some of the original C-5 Orange on the edges!). With a 2X converter, I've got a 2500mm f20. Not exactly, a 2540mm f8, but I can live with it. What's three f-stops with a tripod?
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Nov 23, 2020 3:55:40 GMT
Posted: Nov 23, 2020 3:55:40 GMT
After testing both the Spiratone and Yashica 500mm mirrors last year, I found that they can be a bit dicey on a couple of fronts. Bokeh and OOF for me can be a little too disruptive when it isn't the gaussian fall-off and blur that I'd otherwise see in standard lenses. I realise that not every shot will exhibit their o-ring effect - but it's not always possible to set the framing to minimize it. I'm sure we all know how frustrating it can be when a missed shot is gone in an instant and forever, and the same thing happens for me when background and bokeh overtake the subject. There are times when no rings or percolating backgrounds intrude, and I guess it's more a matter of luck, than practice or mindful compositions on my part. From the Spiratone 500mm...  So this brings me to ask a question. Is there a mirror lens of a certain size or speed or with added attachments like teleconverters, that the background and bokeh consistently settle down and start to look more gaussian than the usual vibrating soap bubbles? If I were to add either a Zeiss or Yashica 1.4 or 2x converter (or even 2 at once), would that compress the in-focus area enough to soften the background, or somehow alter the OOF enough to soften it? I might be tempted to use a cat lens more often, if I could tame the background a little better on a regular basis. I prefer tripods for anything north of 200mm anyways, so climbing f-stops numbers aren't an issue for me. |
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,040 (563 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Nov 23, 2020 15:35:30 GMT
Posted: Nov 23, 2020 15:35:30 GMT
It looks like no one has deep enough pockets as it's now reduced in price... And it has a new page after relisting at 22k/26k Euro/USD. If you want someting a tad bigger (2540mm, f/8), and have a few more pennies ($32k USD), you could go with the Jonel 100. It has an 8.5 inch throat, so it will swallow most of the cameras we'd all use. Maybe you could use the Mirotar as a teleconvertor for it, and get a useable camera mount at the same time. I'm reminded of that massive Canon telephoto, from I think the mid-1980s, that was gimbal-mounted inside a Renault Trafic van and had a photographer's seat welded to the side of the lens barrel. The van was free with the lens for civilian purchase (as if!) but I think it was intended for the military. I remember reading about it in Amateur Photographer and feeling for the first time that my Zeiss Mirotar was rather puny. |
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Nov 23, 2020 16:41:36 GMT
Posted: Nov 23, 2020 16:41:36 GMT
That's a great shot. I could not ask for more.
I have a Spiratone/Tomioka 500mm f8 CAT and a Sigma 500mm f7.2 APO NON-CAT.
The Sigma out-performs the Tomioka -- wide open -- as to sharpness, and the DOF is adjustable. But the Spiratone is a LOT smaller and lighter.
They are both great lenses -- and with a 2x converter, even more so.
|
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,040 (563 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Jan 6, 2022 19:45:03 GMT
Posted: Jan 6, 2022 19:45:03 GMT
This is the latest way that my Contax Zeiss 500mm f4.5 Mirotar is being used - on a Fuji GFX50S.  Zeiss 500 f4.5_Fuji GFX50S_Olympus EE-1It is rare to have 3 different camera systems combining to take a photo but here we have the amazing C/Y Zeiss mirrored behemoth; we have Fuji's medium format 50S digital camera attached to the bellows at the rear of the lens via a Fotodiox Pro adapter; and on top of the Fuji's EVF Tilt-Adapter is Olympus' very handy EE-1 Dot Sight for speedy alignment after it's been calibrated. All of this sits atop a Manfrotto 525MVB tripod with a fluid head for field work. The use of the Tilt-Adapter was needed to ensure that the Dot Sight could see over the lens for accurate alignment; you can see the cut-outs on those cast aluminium blocks which house the carrying handle which are for sighting, rather like an old rifle. But they're not the most accurate and with the lens' naturally shallow dof, precise focusing and alignment are essential to do the Zeiss glass justice. Sadly, none of the Contax or Yashica cameras' pentaprisms sit high enough to allow the Dot Sight to be used. And on top of all that, you get a guaranteed hernia with every set-up.... |
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Jan 6, 2022 22:58:51 GMT
Last Edit: Jan 6, 2022 23:00:07 GMT by lumiworx
And on top of all that, you get a guaranteed hernia with every set-up.... Heavy? Most certainly, but for those of us who were schlepping around 75+ pounds of video gear in the 1980's days of 3/4 inch tape for 9-10 hours per day... we would have easily traded in a heartbeat! |
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,040 (563 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on May 13, 2023 12:05:54 GMT
Posted: May 13, 2023 12:05:54 GMT
I have been nagged on a couple of Forums/Fora to illustrate the quality of the big Mirotar so this morning, despite a hazy start to the day, I took the lens out along with a little 50 f1.7 Planar set at around f4.5 and grabbed this shot on an Olympus E-M1 III using only a monopod for the Mirotar.  50 1.7 Planar__500 f4.5 MirotarI always worry about the Mirotar's lack of Zeiss' T* coatings, but the contrast is not bad - especially in view of the hazy sunshine. If I was younger and fitter, I would have taken a tripod with a strong head with me but that lens really weighs you down when trudging through the various Welsh Valleys. Add the tripod and use of the camera's electronic shutter and the image could have been even stronger, however, despite the slight wobbling of the monopod under the mirrored mass of the Mirotar, I hope you can agree that the big Zeiss is a pretty decent performer. |
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on May 13, 2023 13:13:15 GMT
Last Edit: May 13, 2023 13:27:52 GMT by lumiworx
... If I was younger and fitter, I would have taken a tripod with a strong head with me but that lens really weighs you down when trudging through the various Welsh Valleys. Add the tripod and use of the camera's electronic shutter and the image could have been even stronger, however, despite the slight wobbling of the monopod under the mirrored mass of the Mirotar, I hope you can agree that the big Zeiss is a pretty decent performer. For anyone who's ever managed to watch a few minutes of professional sports being covered on TV, I'd imagine you've all seen the sideline still photographers and their physically long super telephoto lenses. Essentially their basic gear has always been perched on a monopod and the lenses used might typically be a traditional/non-mirrored 400-600mm for U.S. football. I'd say you nailed it with the Mirotar, Graham. That's a lot of lens and to get something that clear with your setup - that is very impressive. The comparison to the 50mm FoV shows some great reach and how well that Mirotar performs. Crazy amount of magnification! |
|
