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on Oct 22, 2016 13:04:47 GMT
Posted: Oct 22, 2016 13:04:47 GMT
Dusting off the 1980's shelves, it appears that the Yashica, Tomioka-made 500mm f8 mirror lens (Yashinon-DX) was also sold as the Spiratone Minitel -- at a substantial discount. It was apparently an "under the table" sort of thing. I'll be putting together a message with all the details I can find in the next few days. I hope you find it interesting.
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on Oct 22, 2016 18:06:11 GMT
Posted: Oct 22, 2016 18:06:11 GMT
Dusting off the 1980's shelves, it appears that the Yashica, Tomioka-made 500mm f8 mirror lens (Yashinon-DX) was also sold as the Spiratone Minitel -- at a substantial discount. It was apparently an "under the table" sort of thing. I'll be putting together a message with all the details I can find in the next few days. I hope you find it interesting. The Spira company has been around a very long time - certainly since the beginning of the 1940s as a film distributor and developer. When it comes to the Spiratone 500 f8 Minitel, you may find that you have to dedicate a couple of weeks of your life to researching the lens.
There are several different versions out there; Spira commissioned a number of manufacturers to produce the lenses - all originally with T-mounts so they could be adapted to pretty much any camera. I understand that the Spiratone brand also changed hands a couple of times since the 1960s before it stopped trading at the end of the 1990s. It is possible that in his initial days as a commissioner of lenses Fred Spira may have approached Tomioka for a T-mount design and, as they already had a good lens produced for their owners Yashica, it may well have formed the basis of the design. It is worth keeping an eye on the front of the lens as most of the Spiratone reflex lenses used front filters (to keep manufacturing costs low) and the 500 f8 was produced in 72mm and 77mm versions; there may also have been others.
In additional to the 500 f8 Minitel they also produced the more substantial 500 f8 Mirror-Ultratel version. Both these lenses had a reputation for low contrast (nowadays not a problem with many corrective software options) with the exception of the Minitel-M version marked as 'Plura-Coat'. Sadly, only the Ultratel makes a good doorstop as the Minitel is too light.
If your research can show a formal connection between Fred Spira and Yashica, I would be very interested.
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on Oct 24, 2016 12:38:18 GMT
Posted: Oct 24, 2016 12:38:18 GMT
Here's an article from Popular Photography: 
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on Oct 24, 2016 13:56:55 GMT
Last Edit: Oct 24, 2016 13:57:14 GMT by biggles3
Hi xkaes,
Thank you for that.
Popular Photography usually got their facts right so as suspected, Fred Spira commissioned the Tomioka plant, already Yashica-owned, to produce a low-cost rival to its own lens. I suppose the Yashica thinking was that they already had the DX version in a C/Y mount and had the ML Reflex under development to replace it so why not get rid of the large amount of excess stock...? I wonder after reading the article how many C/Y camera owners rushed out to buy the Spiratone with the T adapter and used it instead of the Yashica version... I would have, especially as according to the article the Spiratone was multi-coated - that must mean that production coincided with the switch on the DX Reflex to multi-coating, probably like that found on the DS-M lenses.
Do you know the date of the article? I would expect it to be somewhere between 1979 and 1982.
What is equally interesting is that the most successful Spiratone 500 f8 was not the Minitel but the Minitel-M. It was available in a C/Y mount and as the second 'M' implies, even more mini. This was the lens with the 72mm front filter, unlike the DX-derived Minitel with the 77mm front filter. I've attached a scan from Popular Photography in June 1983 which shows the details, including the low price; by comparison, the Yashica 500 f8 Reflex was typically around $280 at this time. That is actually lower than the price quoted in your article for the Spiratone - perhaps an indication of a response to the sales gained by the cheaper lens and Yashica's realisation that selling their own technology to a successful American entrepreneur operating in their biggest market may not have been the brightest idea...

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on Oct 25, 2016 11:47:09 GMT
Posted: Oct 25, 2016 11:47:09 GMT
Hello,
As I mentioned before, I'm putting together some information about these lenses. So far, I know that there were at least three version of the Spiratone/Tomioka Minitel. All have 77mm front threads, T-mounts, and serial numbers that start with 532XXXX. The initial batch was not multi-coated, as PP states, so maybe they didn't "catch-on" until the second batch was produced. The second version is the same but is multi-coated and the rear filter has a tiny change from two little holes to remove the filter to two tiny slots. The third version is slightly shorter (about 10mm) but still has a tripod socket.
Then there is the Minitel-M with 72mm front thread and no tripod socket. It is smaller and lighter. It is multi-coated, but appears much greener. The serial numbers start with 81xxxx so it's probably not Tomioka but it still has a T-mount.
Sorry, I don't know the date of the PP article, but it was around the time of the Yashica switch to the C/Y mount and multi-coating. And given that the Tomioka 500 was changed from single-coating to multi-coating it's not surprising to see the same thing happen with the Spiratone Minitel. So I suspect that the first version of the Minitel would be a match for the Yashinon-DX and the later versions would be comparable to the later multicoated NON-ML Yashica 500mm.
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on Oct 25, 2016 12:04:36 GMT
Posted: Oct 25, 2016 12:04:36 GMT
Good work xkaes!
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on Oct 25, 2016 21:06:27 GMT
Posted: Oct 25, 2016 21:06:27 GMT
As to the C/Y users rushing off to buy the Spiratone, I doubt that there would have been ANY since Spiratone never mentioned the connection in their ads, plus the Yashica users would doubt it anyway, and the Contax users would dismiss it as dribble. But then the Contax users typically dismiss the Yashica lenses as junk -- even though many of the Contax lenses were made by Yashica/Tomioka -- the 500mm f8 Mirotar included. Their loss, our gain!!!
The same thing happened to me in the 1970's. I went to a pincic in a park with many new people to meet. I had a Minolta XE-7 with an 80-200mm Minolta Rokkor-x f4.5 zoom. I met a gal who had a VERY expensive Leica R-3 with a Vario-Elmar 80-200mm f4.5. It was the same exact camera and lens that I had. All you had to do was look at them. Even the lens said "Made in Japan". Minolta made all of it. She would not beleive me. She probably paid around $3,000 for her camera and lens. I got mine for about $700. All she got was German "quality control".
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on Oct 25, 2016 23:32:56 GMT
Posted: Oct 25, 2016 23:32:56 GMT
You are right about Contax users dismissing Yashica lenses at the time (I'm talking 1970s-late 80s). To my shame I was one of them; it hurts to think just how much money I could have saved if I had not been so wedded to Zeiss' glass - I spent over £9400 on Zeiss lenses from 1977 to 1984 - that's around £43000 in today's money. OK - Yashica only had 2 fast lenses and I was shooting indoor sports using mostly f1.4 and f2 but also had a number of f2.8/3.5 lenses and Yashica produced some real stars...not that very many Contax users were looking.
I also never understood the snobbery about Carl Zeiss West Germany vs Japan, the latter being viewed as somehow inferior even though the 50mm Planars were all (except for a couple of prototypes) made in Japan. It took the amazing 21mm Distagon to lay that stupidity finally to rest. Despite that, Ebay prices for German-made Zeiss lenses are still higher than their identical Japanese siblings.
In the meantime, I'm keeping an eye out for a Spiratone Minitel 500 f8...
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on Oct 26, 2016 7:56:21 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 5, 2016 18:34:58 GMT by xkaes
Well, I might be able to help you out. You see, I have accumulated too many Spiratone 500mm f8 lenses. I only need one, of course, but I've been having a hard time deciding which one to keep. I have two of the "Version 1" single-coated models, one of the "Version 2" multi-coated model, one of the "Version 3" slightly smaller multi-coated model, and two of the Minitel-M models. I obviously don't need SIX 500mm lenses, considering that I already have a GREAT Sigma 500mm f7.2 APO (refractive) lens -- larger, but light. I have run some preliminary resolution tests (all under controlled conditions) on all of these lenses, and they all look great, so I'm getting ready to unload them on EBAY, but I don't know which one to keep. Right now, I'm leaning toward the "Version 3" smaller multi-coated model, but I might just sell them all. Contact me at xkaes@aol.com if you are interested. www.subclub.org/all four coating.JPG www.subclub.org/all four side.JPG www.subclub.org/all four bottom.JPG I can't get the pictures to show up here for some reason so you will need to do cuts and pastes. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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on Oct 27, 2016 2:15:21 GMT
Posted: Oct 27, 2016 2:15:21 GMT
A word of caution here, xkaes. It's not a good idea to put your e-mail address in one of the threads. Just have folks PM you via the Forum.
PF
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on Nov 6, 2016 21:59:11 GMT
Posted: Nov 6, 2016 21:59:11 GMT
I've posted my first 500mm f8 Tomioka Spiratone lens on EBAY. Just do a search for "spiratone 500mm f8" if interested.
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on Dec 3, 2016 16:03:21 GMT
Posted: Dec 3, 2016 16:03:21 GMT
As promised:
Tomioka, Yashica, Spiratone (and Mirotar, Sigma, etc.) 500mm f8 lens timeline/history
Version 1
I hope someone finds it interesting. Please let me know of any way to correct it or improve it!
http//:www.subclub.org/Tomioka.doc
You might need to drop off the "http://" or the "www." or BOTH! It is best read in VIEW/WHOLE PAGE mode, but the formatting got messed up somewhere along the way.
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on Dec 9, 2016 16:12:28 GMT
Posted: Dec 9, 2016 16:12:28 GMT
I've made some small changes to the EXCEL worksheet in the Tomioka, Yashica, Spiratone (and Mirotar, Sigma, etc.) 500mm f8 lens timeline/history. So this is Version 2. Please let me know if you have trouble reading some or all of it. And, as always, if you have anyway to correct it or improve it, please let me know!
http//:www.subclub.org/Tomioka.doc
You might need to drop off the "http://" or the "www." or BOTH! It is best read in VIEW/WHOLE PAGE mode, but the formatting got messed up somewhere along the way
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on Nov 29, 2017 15:20:12 GMT
Posted: Nov 29, 2017 15:20:12 GMT
Just a couple of changes to the four links above.
First, you need to use a copy and paste of the URLs to view the pages.
Second, I changed the DOC document to a PDF document.
Sorry about any problems.
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on Nov 29, 2017 16:50:49 GMT
Posted: Nov 29, 2017 16:50:49 GMT
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