   
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,289 (283 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Aug 11, 2022 0:15:00 GMT
Last Edit: Aug 11, 2022 0:19:54 GMT by lumiworx
After several models of the Samurai that used standard 35mm cartridges, there was the 400 and 4000ix models that used APS film cans, and the consistent trait through all of them was that their exposures were made as half-frame vertical shots onto film. I was surprised to discover it, but that's not the end of the Samurai name, and these don't show up in any of my lists. How about a Yashica/Kyocera co-branded model that records to Hi8 video tape... but there's more. It's actually a rebranded Sony with a Yashica made lens. From what little digging I've done, there were at least 3 of these video Samurai models, marketed as the KX-H1U, the KX-77, and the KX-90U. I spied one of the KX-90U models up for auction, and ended up with it arriving yesterday in near mint condition. It included (I assume) it's original OEM strap and leatherette travel case. It uses NP-33/NP-55/NP-77/NP-99 (Sony) battery types and standard Hi8 video cassettes. It records audio in stereo, and even has plugs for remote microphones if you're up for elevating the audio quality. This one looks great, but has no charger, so that leaves it's operability up in the air temporarily. The 2 included batteries - one low amp hours and one high - both have a teeny charge in them above dead-empty, and as I understand it, these cameras will run off AC with a proper adapter, so I'll have to read through the manual (Sony's version, online) to find out more first. The Sony model that this branches from is the CCD-TR81, but I haven't yet started to dig into the other models to see what their heritage might be. The Yashica lens is a Macro Zoom, marked as a 8.5-68mm f/2, and it looks to have the usual ML coatings on it.  
|
|
   
Group: Moderator
Post: 1,925 (524 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Aug 11, 2022 2:41:28 GMT
Posted: Aug 11, 2022 2:41:28 GMT
Well done on finding a working model!
Nearly all the Samurai Video models I see for sale to UK buyers are 'untested', which tends to mean not working, or are for spares or repair. I don't think many, if any, made it to the UK when they were being marketed although a number of Yashica video models like the KX-95 were sold over here.
It's also very interesting to note the co-operation with Sony; the notion of adding Yashica glass to the quality of Sony's video hardware is very appealing. I presume Kyocera supplied the Yashica glass to Sony for assembly on their production lines.
|
|
   
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,289 (283 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Aug 11, 2022 16:24:13 GMT
Last Edit: Aug 11, 2022 16:25:28 GMT by lumiworx
Thanks Graham, but it's a bit too early to call it 'working'. Without any way to power it and no tape cassette in-hand to load for a proper test, that's a leap of faith I can't make just yet. I've found all the power parts needed, and luckily the tapes are fairly common, so they're easy to find - even new, and still in their shrink wrap. There's rumblings in the back of my head warning me it could be another parts chase, only to find out that I have a very pretty corpse that I'm throwing accessory money at in hopes of a revival. I've had a couple of times where that's worked out fine, but not all of the chases end happily. Sony had - and still has - a number of "HandyCam" camcorders that had Zeiss Vario-Sonnar lenses attached prior to their launching into the mirrorless market ( starting a 'partnership' in 2006). I'm guessing that the Yashica lensed rebrands were a lead up to that, and those early Zeiss lenses might have been supplied by Yashica. Sony seems to be as secretive about optics as Yashica was, and their optics division appears to keep a very low profile, unless they feel like beating their chests, like their onion-ring bokeh correction w/ extreme aspherical elements -or-touting the Sony FE 50mm f/1.2. It's doubtful there will be any hints from them with so little public-facing optical news. I do find it odd that in the 2006 mention about the Sony/Zeiss partnership (in the linked Lenspire article above) that there's no mention of Yashica as a member.
|
|
   
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,289 (283 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Aug 11, 2022 20:24:57 GMT
Last Edit: Aug 12, 2022 16:35:52 GMT by lumiworx
Prior to doing a search on Samurai Video 8 camcorders, I wanted to track down the batteries used on this model, and I came across a compatibility chart for camcorder-ish Kyocera cameras. I'm not able to yet identify with any certainty what common model names may be associated with every one of these, so for the moment I'll post the entire list here and with luck they'll get properly associated and identified. This Samarai Video model is the KX-90U, and although there are several more of the "KX-" prefixed models in this list, I can't assume they are all Samurai models, or even camcorders. If any of the members can help to clarify what goes with what, it would be much appreciated. There are some that are obvious, and I'm surprised to see them in the list, but I digress. :) Model # | Model Name |
---|
BP1100R | ??? | BPF750 | ??? | DSCF707 | ??? | DSCS75 | ??? | DSCS85 | ??? | FP150 | ??? | FP1501 | ??? | FP1502 | ??? | FP1550 | ??? | FP170 | ??? | KDS530 | ??? | KDS550 | Ni-Cad battery | KDS5530 | ??? | KDS5550 | ??? | KDS840 | ??? | KDST90 | ??? | KX1 | Samurai KX-1U | KX350 | ??? | KX35U | ??? | KX70 | Samurai KX-70
| KX70E | ??? | KX77 | Yashica KX-77 | KX77CV | ??? | KX77U | Samurai KX-77U | KX90 | Samurai KX-90 | KX90E | Samurai KX-90E | KX90U | Samurai KX-90U | KX95 | Yashica KX-95 | KX95U | ??? | KXC1 | ??? | KXH1 | Samurai KX-H1 | KXH1H | ??? | KXH1U | ??? | KXH3 | Yashica KX-H3 | KXH35 | ??? | KXLV1 | Samurai KX-LV1
| KXV1 | Yashica KX-V1 | KXV10 | Yashica KX-V10 | KXV1U | ??? | MDMS200 | ??? | Samurai 2100DG | Samurai 2100DG | U4R | Contax U4R | U4RB | Contax U4RB |
|
|
   
Group: Moderator
Post: 1,925 (524 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Aug 12, 2022 9:33:31 GMT
Last Edit: Aug 12, 2022 10:42:12 GMT by biggles3
Hi lumiworx I've added a few models into your list, annotated in purple. All the Samurai ones added are named Yashica and not Kyocera. However, there is also a KX-V3 camera though that is a Kyocera Samurai Hi8 model. Other cameras which could be added are the Yashica KX-95E and Yashica Samurai KX-H1E. I assume the E designations on various models signal that the video signal is PAL. If that is the case, one would expect the U designation to mean that it is NTSC/PAL switchable.
EDIT:Just spotted another one: a Kyocera Samurai KX-LV1...
|
|
   
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,289 (283 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Aug 12, 2022 15:17:35 GMT
Last Edit: Aug 12, 2022 15:21:29 GMT by lumiworx
Thanks, Graham! I added that new one to the list. I'm guessing that the 'U' designation might mean 'Universal', which leaves me puzzled by the 'E', but that might cover 'European' models where PAL is the default (or only) format used. Of course France had to be the contrarian and use SECAM. Any other suffixes may not be tied to broadcast standards, if in fact, the unknown models are even video cameras. I'm not even sure if the SECAM standard was ever used in consumer cameras at all as the recording format, so that's another possibility. I have no clue why the U4R/U4RB models appeared in this list at all. The size of the smallest NP battery (NP-33) is easily twice the size of either model in its entirety, and obviously a U4R is not a camcorder. A little less puzzling is the Samurai 2100DG, which I'll presume is included just for the name alone - and the fact that it needs a more unique battery than most others like it would use. It's a digital Samurai still camera, and oddly the list doesn't include the Samurai 1300DG which preceded it, although I don't know if it's batteries could be shared between models. I'm going to try running some searches on some of the others in the list to see what pops up. As for the cam that started the thread here... I found an original (but, used) Kyocera AC-1700 powers supply/charger and it and a fresh Hi8 tape are on the way. There was a plug-in 'dummy' adapter that slid in to take the place of a battery, and was plugged into an output port on the AC-1700 as an alternate power source, so there is another way to power the camera(s). That's one more option if this does turn out to be a working camcorder. Time will tell.
|
|
   
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,289 (283 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Aug 12, 2022 17:14:31 GMT
Last Edit: Aug 12, 2022 17:17:51 GMT by lumiworx
I'm finding a few models on the list, and a few more that aren't, but now might be a good time to ask one question that came up while searching, that deals with the actual format. All my decades in using video cameras was limited to broadcast quality cameras and recorders that used either 1/2" or 1" reels, or 3/4" cassettes, and not the consumer type models, so this is somewhat new territory for me. I've run across camera ads that specifically mention 8mm, 8mm compatible, or simply Hi8 and/or 8mm as the only printed designators on camcorders, i.e., Yashica KX-X1 (Hi8), Yashica KD-M770 (8mm), Yashica KD-H150 (8mm), and Yashica KD-H170 (Hi8). With this many additions I have to assume there may be far more in number than first blush, so would the additional Hi8/8mm details be significant to also make that spec a part of this list? If it is, I'll try to verify what I can include with any I find. It also looks like a spreadsheet might be a good idea too, with the number of items steadily growing... so I'll pack these all into a fresh one to post later on. This article helps to delineate the format differences, for those interested... legacybox.com/blogs/analog/myth-buster-all-digital8-camcorders-are-compatible-with-8mm-tapes
|
|
   
Group: Moderator
Post: 1,925 (524 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Aug 12, 2022 21:08:14 GMT
Posted: Aug 12, 2022 21:08:14 GMT
A little less puzzling is the Samurai 2100DG, which I'll presume is included just for the name alone - and the fact that it needs a more unique battery than most others like it would use. It's a digital Samurai still camera, and oddly the list doesn't include the Samurai 1300DG which preceded it, although I don't know if it's batteries could be shared between models. Hi Randy, You have to admit that the 2100DG looks like a video camera... And yes, technically I should not have put it on a Yashica display base but I don't have a Kyocera one... Samurai 2100DGNot strictly relevant to this thread but I have yet to find a 1300DG which works but I'll keep looking. There was one for sale in Japan but it was eye-wateringly expensive because of its stated rarity... And it doesn't even take a decent piccie...
|
|
   
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,289 (283 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Aug 13, 2022 21:14:37 GMT
Last Edit: Aug 13, 2022 21:17:17 GMT by lumiworx
In similar situations in the past biggles3 , I'd think I'd save my pennies for something a little more useful, than to run after the rare ones. Having/owning/presenting some things are great, but life is far too short as it is, so I'd prefer to shoot for a richer experience, than the alternatives of just collecting gear. 'They' always seem to show up when you least expect whatever you're looking for anyway, and at a much more reasonable price than you'd expect. Forgive the stupid but simple question... but curiosity compels me... do either of the Samurai DG models take portrait oriented images, ala half-frame-ish, like the earlier film versions? Logic leads me to think they'd be standard 4x5 landscape ratio frames, but I'm wondering if the 'family' name and framing tradition took precedence or might have been a capture option. I'm beginning to think there's less sense in what made it onto this original list as I go through it. I've found a few more, and much broader lists, and it seems they are peppered with both compatible camera models, and compatible battery models, and there's no guide or text on the page to help decipher which is which. They appear to show Yashica and/or Kyocera batteries by model number as brand equivalents to other makers batteries, in the same chart as the cameras, which makes it very confusing. Here's a page that seems to break them down for one single battery model as "Suitable for" and "Compatible with" that makes it easier to relate them together... www.master-instruments.com.au/products/55479/VB6H.htmlI've started to compile a spreadsheet, and I think it's simpler to just add in a column for tape/recording format as Video8, vs., Hi8, vs., Digital8 wherever it's known. I can't assume the details will be readily apparent at the outset, and it's a few clicks to put it in place anyway, so why not...?
|
|
   
Group: Moderator
Post: 1,925 (524 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Aug 14, 2022 16:05:38 GMT
Posted: Aug 14, 2022 16:05:38 GMT
Hi.
I can't yet answer to the 1300DG but the 2100DG takes landscape piccies in roughly a FourThirds format. So, Samurai in styling only...
I have only one criterion when it comes to buying Contax/Yashica gear: it must be capable of being used. That's it. That's why I won't buy any of the Acclaim series or the Samurai 4000ix or Contax Tix as APS is pretty much redundant apart from the occasional out-of-date roll which was probably left next to a central heating radiator...
But you are absolutely right; you do have to temper the desire to grab something on the basis of rarity alone... There's a lovely black J-3 for sale but at about 6 times the price of a standard one...not for me. Of course, if I had a windfall....
|
|
   
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,289 (283 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Aug 15, 2022 18:18:49 GMT
Posted: Aug 15, 2022 18:18:49 GMT
... There's a lovely black J-3 for sale but at about 6 times the price of a standard one...not for me. Of course, if I had a windfall.... I've seen several of them at exorbitant prices too, but then patience and luck can intervene when you least expect it. From one year ago...it may not have the all-black 5cm lens, but I can still be very patient. :) 
|
|
   
Group: Moderator
Post: 1,925 (524 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Aug 15, 2022 21:39:25 GMT
Posted: Aug 15, 2022 21:39:25 GMT
What a lovely sight! And always pleased to see the ML 28-50 - fabulous lens...
|
|
   
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,289 (283 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Aug 18, 2022 16:32:26 GMT
Posted: Aug 18, 2022 16:32:26 GMT
After getting both the Kyocera AC-1700 battery charger and a brand new Hi8 tape, I'm able to confirm that both the original battery and the Ricoh extended battery will take and hold a charge, but sadly the only functionality I get from the camera is the ability to open the tape door and see the forever obnoxious blinking 00:00:00 Date/Time/Runtime characters of the small LCD display. I get no viewfinder at all, and with this model, there are no other indicators that seem to light up. I can swing through several modes and have the LCD change with each one, but that's the extent of what seems to be working.
I'll go through the manual to see if I missed something vital, and I somehow managed to find an original Sony repair manual online (I'll add that into the repair forum list a bit later), so I might be able to track down some things to look for and have a go at a fix.
|
|