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on Jul 7, 2022 12:54:14 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 7, 2022 13:31:45 GMT by xkaes
Here's an odd one.
I've heard of Tomioki, of course, and Hanimex. It appears that some lenses were made with the Hanimar label? That's a new one on me.
This seller has a Haminar made by Tomioki -- or so he claims. Did Tomioka make a lot of lenses for Hamimex? Might be some good glass out there!
Anyone know anything about this? These?
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on Jul 7, 2022 17:04:42 GMT
Posted: Jul 7, 2022 17:04:42 GMT
This came up in one of my saved searches, so I saw the same thing a day or so ago, and thought the same thing. The cosmetics look similar to those done under the Chinon label, but I don't think that's enough to draw a certain conclusion. Another seller has the same lens by itself ( www.ebay.com/itm/255546106595), and if you search for 'Chinon 55mm', there are a few others that have the same 'look'. If - and that's a big if - Yashica/Tomioka did produce or even design anything for Hanimex directly, I don't know what documentation or anecdotal evidence there might be to bare that out. It may very well be possible, or maybe Chinon had excess inventory that they then sold to Hanimex without any Yashica/Tomioka involvement, but that's pure speculation by me, with absolutely nothing to go on. There are some notes included on the Hanimex page at camereapedia that point to what rebadged offerings they had, and although there's mention of Chinon and even some about the Royal 35 SP (a clone of the Yashica 35 rangefinder, w/ Tomioka Tominar f/1.9 lens) there's no direct links to insinuate there was any public pairings to tie them to either Yashica or Tomioka from what's shown there. There's a lot of loose associations all over the web that might bring one to that conclusion, but it might take a major teardown of 2 lenses to compare them side by side, and even then, it will still be nothing more that an unqualified match at best. I haven't seen any internal stampings on parts that clearly indicate Tomioka or Yashica as a maker, and only the face rings that are marked as "Tomioka" to guarantee the origin on anything that's either rebranded or just a simple design job under contract.
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on Jul 7, 2022 18:06:27 GMT
Posted: Jul 7, 2022 18:06:27 GMT
And anything on EBAY is suspect, anyway. I've seen Minolta lenses being sold as Nikon, Pentax being sold as Canon, etc.
It' s almost always ignorance, not malice.
But a few times it's worked out in my favor because the seller had exactly what I needed -- and listed it as something COMPLETELY different.
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on Jul 8, 2022 9:44:45 GMT
Posted: Jul 8, 2022 9:44:45 GMT
If there's one thing you can say about the Hanimex/Hanimar brands, it's that they never exhibited a fixed house style.
There are a few Hanimar 135 f3.5 Preset lenses in M42 mount (not the T-mount version) being sold on Ebay right now which have an identical cosmetic appearance to those 55mm f1.7 lenses. If Tomioka had a hand in designing or manufacturing the 55mm, I would imagine they'd keep very quiet about it as reviews are pretty awful. Furthermore, the same style can be seen in later manufactured Hanimar and Auto Revuenon 135mm f2.8 lenses as well as a still later Hanimex version. By the time of the Hanimex model, despite its styling cues, I would be very surprised if Tomioka had any involvement as by then, the plant was producing Yashica lenses. However, the presence of an Auto Revuenon lens with the styling seen on the Tomioka-made 55mm f1.2 lenses is interesting as we know the super-fast Revuenon was indeed manufactured by Tomioka. However, I do find it hard to see how a company that could design and manufacture those various 55mm f1.2 lenses could also be responsible for the poor quality, Hanimar 55 f1.7 and preset 135mm f3.5 models mentioned earlier... That said, Tomioka was in difficulty in the early 1960s and if people came to them asking for a cheap range of lower quality budget lenses which would not carry the Tomioka brand, I could imagine management giving it a go... I don't suppose we'll ever know the truth.
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on Jul 8, 2022 17:18:42 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 8, 2022 17:36:41 GMT by lumiworx
There are some unknown elements about these Hanimex lenses which could either lend some credence to the Tomioka claim or steer them farther away, and much depends on how much involvement there would have been between all the makers. Tomioka was in many ways a parallel to Zeiss in that they came up with an optical formula and design diagram for others, but left some or all of the manufacturing to their client/partner to do themselves, or farm it out to some other 3rd party. Even in those cases where the Tomioka brand is stamped on the face ring there's no qualifying terms, like "Made by" or "By" or "Assembled By" to truly know how deep the involvement runs when there's absolutely no denying Tomioka was a player. When it comes to how much involvement they had with Yashica, I think it's safe to say the lenses were 'made' by Tomioka in some form at least, and possibly assembled by Yashica at the very least for their part. That changes once they were acquired of course, and then everything is in house. There's also the question of glass chemistry. Lots of lenses attributed to Tomioka in the M42 period have some distinctions that others don't, where they go beyond the simplest assumption that since the focal length was 55mm, it likely could have had some tie to Tomioka. (Not true, BTW) Thorium was added as an enhancement to Tomioka's lenses (the majority of the faster 55's, including the 1.2's) and they're slightly radioactive. Of those radiated lenses, they usually came in 2 speeds where they were bound for 3rd party branding, as f/1.4, or f/1.8. Mamiya's certainly came that way, and the Auto Sears and Auto Rikenon 1.4's didn't come with radioactive slower siblings that I know of, although there was a Rikenon M42 Ato f/1.7 and an Auto Sears f/1.8 that had no Thorium content. Yashica's radiated lenses on the other hand, were always at f/1.4 and f/1.7 at the faster speeds (DS, DX, DS-M, and not including any 1.2's for limited comparison to rebranding). You'll notice there are no radiation listings under the Hanimex brand in the linked article. I would speculate that the positive 0.1 speed difference was a marketing point meant to 'up-market' their own models and influence the buyer's favor towards Yashica -OR- there was an intentional and very real physical difference in how they were assembled (i.e., tolerances or fine tuning) to make the house brand incrementally better than those made for others. Another possibility might be that this idea would shield any speculators of the time, that they were even making lenses for rebranding, or simply selling parts for use in other maker's products. As for any f/1.2 lenses, I've never seen one from Hanimex and don't know if they offered any. The 3rd party rebranded and Yashica AND Tomioka branded models were certainly known for who made what, and were all thoroughly (but minimally) radiated to make many a geiger counter click. Last, but not least, is what parts have to be used to qualify any lens to be related to Tomioka in any way whatsoever. Barrels and screws and rubber, or metal bayonet mounts or iris blades would hardly count towards tieing the makers together at the prestige level some may want to claim. Chinon may have sold off their entire overstock of a previous years inventory of metal parts, so that anything assembled with non-Tomioka glass would appear to be exactly the same, when in fact, the optics are the distinguishing parts in my mind that would offer any reason to make a claim to fame. No Tomioka glass = NOT a 'Tomioka" lens, regardless of what other parts these may or may not contain.
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on Jul 10, 2022 14:14:11 GMT
Posted: Jul 10, 2022 14:14:11 GMT
Well, I've again missed something that was right in front of me. Prior to the DS/DX/DS-M line from Yashica, there was the Auto Yashinon, and among them was a 5.5cm f/1.8 sibling to the 5.5cm f/1.4, so obviously Yashica didn't just produce f/1.7 versions of the mid-speed M42 standard lenses. And by "right in front of me", I mean that literally and even posted a pic of one in this forum not that long ago.
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on Jul 10, 2022 19:59:27 GMT
Posted: Jul 10, 2022 19:59:27 GMT
Well, I've again missed something that was right in front of me. Prior to the DS/DX/DS-M line from Yashica, there was the Auto Yashinon, and among them was a 5.5cm f/1.8 sibling to the 5.5cm f/1.4, so obviously Yashica didn't just produce f/1.7 versions of the mid-speed M42 standard lenses. And by "right in front of me", I mean that literally and even posted a pic of one in this forum not that long ago. Hi Randy, ...and don't forget the f2 versions too!
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on Jul 11, 2022 11:02:48 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 11, 2022 11:03:39 GMT by lumiworx
Well, I've again missed something that was right in front of me. Prior to the DS/DX/DS-M line from Yashica, there was the Auto Yashinon, and among them was a 5.5cm f/1.8 sibling to the 5.5cm f/1.4, so obviously Yashica didn't just produce f/1.7 versions of the mid-speed M42 standard lenses. And by "right in front of me", I mean that literally and even posted a pic of one in this forum not that long ago. Hi Randy, ...and don't forget the f2 versions too! That's one of them too, but most of the 3rd party lens speeds that are usually touted as "Tomioka" are mostly 1.4's and occasionally the 1.8's. That in itself also poses other questions. Were the slower/slowest speed lenses like the f/2's and 2.8's rebranded at all, or as much, as the faster ones were? Did anything other than 'standard' 50mm-ish SLR lenses ever see life under a different brand label under any speed?
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on Jul 11, 2022 12:27:33 GMT
Posted: Jul 11, 2022 12:27:33 GMT
Hi Randy, ...and don't forget the f2 versions too! That's one of them too, but most of the 3rd party lens speeds that are usually touted as "Tomioka" are mostly 1.4's and occasionally the 1.8's. That in itself also poses other questions. Were the slower/slowest speed lenses like the f/2's and 2.8's rebranded at all, or as much, as the faster ones were? Did anything other than 'standard' 50mm-ish SLR lenses ever see life under a different brand label under any speed? Good question! Uh-oh, more research needed.....
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