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on Apr 23, 2021 16:10:11 GMT
Last Edit: Apr 23, 2021 16:13:14 GMT by biggles3
I'm often asked about differences between the SL300R models as both the Contax and Kyocera Finecam models seem to be identically specified. Well, internally they are. The only real difference is in the lenses. The Contax SL300RT uses a Zeiss Vario-Tessar T* 5.8-17.4mm f2.8-4.7 zoom and the Kyocera Finecam SL300R sports a lens of the same specification but without the Zeiss T* coating and glass. The Zeiss lens is manufactured in Japan and sent to China for incorporation into the camera; the Finecam's lens is assembled in China. Interestingly, neither camera states a country of origin. SL300R comparisonAs you can see from the photo, apart from a superior cosmetic finish on the Contax the only obvious difference is that the Contax provides a lens hood, unlike the Finecam. This hood is removable and in its place you can use the supplied adapter to mount 28mm filters. The combination of the Zeiss T* coatings and the hood may go some way to explain the superior contrast of the SL300RT's images over those of the Finecam; it also produces a slightly better edge definition. Given the modest pixel count of both cameras (3.2Mp) was the Contax worth the whopping premium over the cost of the Finecam - probably not. But it is a beautiful little camera and can produce decent images and movies; I always carry a SL300RT (or the Contax i4R) with me wherever I go. It starts instantaneously and takes up so little space, fitting comfortably inside a jacket pocket and both are very discreet. I love the fact that with the SL300RT you can appear to be facing in one direction but the lens can be rotated so that it takes an image or records a movie behind, above or below you; a Private Eye's dream camera... When Kyocera decided to increase the pixel count to 4Mp, it introduced the Finecam SL400R. However, it decided to produce quite a different model for Contax in the form of the U4R. Both these models can be seen below. SL400R vs U4RAgain, the major differences are external with the Contax using a new body shape but retaining the same rotating lens found in the SL300Rs and the SL400R. The Contax has some additional functionality and a toggle was introduced to allow speedy switching between the various operating modes. The body is also covered in a nicely padded leather finish, thicker than on the SL300RT, which makes it a pleasure to handle. It does have a later processing engine than the SL400R and like all the Contax digital cameras, a series of firmware updates was made available - though it was unbelievably difficult to find out about them and instructions for installation were only provided in Japanese. Despite the updates to the Contax model, the image quality of both cameras is pretty much on a par, with the Contax edging it in contrast and flare resistance but otherwise they're very close. The Contax is larger and heavier than the SL400R and for many Contax users, despite the lower pixel count, the SL300RT remained the more popular choice. One slight advantage for the U4R came from the use of a larger viewing screen. One good thing about the Finecam SL400R is that Kyocera learnt from their oversight on the SL300R and this time incorporated a lens hood plus the filter adapter. Again, was the U4R worth the huge premium when set against the cost of the SL400R? The only time you benefited from its use was under extreme lighting conditions where the Zeiss glass and coatings did give you a real advantage but other than that, the Finecam is very much its equal. Incidentally, both of these later cameras state that 'parts were made in Japan and assembled in China'.
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on Apr 23, 2021 20:15:37 GMT
Posted: Apr 23, 2021 20:15:37 GMT
Late last year I got a Kyocera SL400R and fortunately it was/is working, but it's been tucked away and sitting in it's box soon after arriving. Not having a Contax model to compare to is probably a good thing, and I too was a little surprised that a wee sensor size could do pretty well at 4MP. They certainly are very small and very sneaky. I still tend to grab a P7700 Coolpix and a belt pouch to have something compact to take along, and I'd consider the SL400R too, but aside from the smaller capacity SD cards, there's one thing that keeps me from using it.
It came with the charger and all the cables and still has the original battery, but they're lithium ion and those teeny flat ones always seem to resist charging before long and give up the ghost without much warning. I've found some off-brand replacements, as no one I've come across so far seems to carry the original OEM versions anymore, and the Chinese 3rd party types don't fill me with confidence when the maker on the label is here today, gone tomorrow. Is there a better brand of these to buy, or does anyone still have originals for sale? The ones I've found aren't overly expensive at $12, but I don't want to spend a bunch on them several times a year to keep some handy.
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on Apr 23, 2021 20:47:41 GMT
Last Edit: Apr 23, 2021 20:49:09 GMT by bobblehat
An "insider" once told me that the lenses for the Kyocera version and the Contax versions of the 300's were the same. The difference being that the top performing lenses on optical testing were reserved for Contax and then went on for T* coating. The lenses had to meet a strict "pass" level to be reserved for Contax. I was happy to receive a Contax version in black from the company and used it as my carry everywhere camera for quite a while after that. It amused colleagues and friends with its twist-body action. I still have it today. It's a keeper! Well actually, I realise that I still have its replacement today .... the original got stolen in 2005. Kyocera kindly replaced it with an identical one. The Contax U4R also came in Black, Indigo and Camel ... I believe that this is the first image I have seen of a silver U4R .... one to add to the Contax chart! It would be difficult to number the variations of the SL300R and SL400R models as Kyocera went truly "mental" in producing body colour variations and custom theme stick-on body clothing for those models. To name a few, there were "engine-turned" style colours, Limited Edition colours, Fine Art plates, "Classics" of mainly graphical designs, "Elements" - Earth/Fire/Air/Water and an Easter/Summer collection. Some variations for the SL400R were ..... Sponge Limited Editions in Milky Pink, Milky Blue and Milky Yellow (6000 each) and Limited Edition Ipod colours. All "Big in Japan" ... as they say! A few sample pics from my Contax SL300RT(s) .....
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on Apr 23, 2021 21:36:30 GMT
Posted: Apr 23, 2021 21:36:30 GMT
bobblehat ... Great looking images, and looking at that shot of the coin now has me wondering If I've missed a detail. Is there a macro mode, or are these cameras just able to do some real close focusing?
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on Apr 23, 2021 22:01:30 GMT
Last Edit: Apr 23, 2021 22:02:11 GMT by bobblehat
You're stretching my memory a bit now! I downsized the original image for the forum to 900px wide, but I have the original data from the image that I took in 2008 (apparently). Maybe Graham can fill in the details as he may have "studied" the manual by now I'll mooch around tomorrow, grab the camera and see if I can replicate the image and give some more detail about the settings!
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on Apr 23, 2021 22:17:55 GMT
Posted: Apr 23, 2021 22:17:55 GMT
Wow! As soon as I posted the last message I had a brainwave! (Don't get them too often at my time of life ). There it was in the drawer, right next to my PC .... switched it on expecting it to be as dead as a doornail, given I haven't used it for many months. No! It booted up! Battery shows very low ... but enough to kick it into life! In camera mode, hitting the "Scene" button gives you ... Standard, Sports Action, Portrait, Night View, Night Portrait, MACRO, and finally ... Landscape. I guess the penultimate mode could explain it! I'll have a play tomorrow ... it's a little late in UK now! I'll see if I can replicate the shot (probably with a different coin) to confirm how I took it!
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on Apr 24, 2021 13:24:46 GMT
Last Edit: Apr 24, 2021 13:29:24 GMT by bobblehat
I think I have it nailed. Had a play this morning after charging the battery and another spare one. 2048 x 1536 res, Fine quality setting, 100ISO, Auto White Balance, Macro Mode, full zoom plus 2x digital zoom, 2 second self timer, no flash, no exposure comp, other settings to "normal". I bungee'd the camera to a tripod top-plate and used the twisty lens to give me a decent view of the camera screen while the lens pointed down at the coin (a similar coin to the original in size and condition) approx 12 inches away. After a couple of test shots I was reasonably happy with this shot. I could possibly have persevered and tried to get a finer focus .... who knows! p.s. The original coin was in a plastic capsule, this new one isn't. A hand towel substituted for a similar background to the carpet I no longer have Downsized to 900 px ..... Extract at 100% Exif data
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on Apr 24, 2021 19:57:30 GMT
Last Edit: Apr 24, 2021 19:58:33 GMT by lumiworx
That's really impressive Bob... especially when it's coming from a 3MP sensor that's smaller than an 8mm movie frame size, at a 6.02 crop factor.I found some more details on DPReview for the Kyocera SL300R, which also linked to similar articles for the Contax U4R, and the (also strange and unique) Contax I4R. I've got an 8MP Polaroid i830 with the same size sensor, and it's not quite up to the quality you're getting with double the resolution. I noticed that your EXIF data shows it's saved at 24bits and not 8 or 16, which might account for most of why that is. This has all convinced me to at least try the cheapo batteries and I need to run the firmware updates too. I had it downloaded, but not installed, so this all might give me another pocket alternative.
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on Apr 25, 2021 9:59:05 GMT
Posted: Apr 25, 2021 9:59:05 GMT
Thanks Lumi ..... having just had a play with it, I'm tempted to take it out more often when I want to use a very compact camera.
I will have to have a go at a comparison with one of the more modern (and a little bulkier) P&S digitals cameras with 20mp ... just out of curiosity!
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on Apr 25, 2021 14:29:52 GMT
Posted: Apr 25, 2021 14:29:52 GMT
That's really impressive Bob... especially when it's coming from a 3MP sensor that's smaller than an 8mm movie frame size, at a 6.02 crop factor.I found some more details on DPReview for the Kyocera SL300R, which also linked to similar articles for the Contax U4R, and the (also strange and unique) Contax I4R. I've got an 8MP Polaroid i830 with the same size sensor, and it's not quite up to the quality you're getting with double the resolution. I noticed that your EXIF data shows it's saved at 24bits and not 8 or 16, which might account for most of why that is. This has all convinced me to at least try the cheapo batteries and I need to run the firmware updates too. I had it downloaded, but not installed, so this all might give me another pocket alternative. I'm glad you mentioned the i4R as it's often overlooked. It is one of the most beautiful designs for a compact digital camera that I've ever seen, especially in piano black. I have lost quite a few to girlfriends over the years as they loved the design - one commented that it looked like a scent-spray. You can see the three versions in the middle of the photo - to start the camera, all you do is pull up the bar with the flash and the lens pops out and it's immediately ready to shoot stills or movies. It's great for street photography. Although its sensor size is the same as that in the SL300RT, it has a 26% greater pixel density which accounts for its higher resolution (4Mp vs 3.17Mp). Contax TVS-D black rAs far as I'm aware, the i4Rs remain one of the smallest digital cameras ever made that can produce a top quality image. Unfortunately, their iconic design has meant that they are hard to find and expensive to buy, commanding prices that are 4 or 5 times higher than for the SL300RT which represents good value for a Contax digital camera.
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on Apr 25, 2021 20:32:27 GMT
Posted: Apr 25, 2021 20:32:27 GMT
Thanks Lumi ..... having just had a play with it, I'm tempted to take it out more often when I want to use a very compact camera. I will have to have a go at a comparison with one of the more modern (and a little bulkier) P&S digitals cameras with 20mp ... just out of curiosity! Adding to biggles3 observation on pixel density, that could turn into an apples and elephants comparison with digital. Back when the ISO ratings and frame sizes of pretty much every single 35mm film camera could lead to some reasonable comparisons to be judged by eye, the digital world has mucked about with not just the size of the physical sensor, but the on-chip density, interpolation algorithms, filtering formulations (when there actually is one on-chip), A.I. after-processing (not user editable), and any number of 'under the hood' things that may lead one astray. Try not to pixel-peep, or at least have a bottle of aspirin near by if you do. From the aforementioned Polaroid i830, and massively post processed to get a reasonable image fit for posting... This is from a 1/2.5 cropped sensor like the SL400R, but with nearly twice the pixel density. The lack of good firmware and filtering - and I'm sure, the less than sterling optics - don't really elevate its 8MP to the level of anything other than the "Lomo" end of the spectrum. Great for quick snapshots and documenting something where resolution won't matter, but not something I'd intend to print to paper for wall exhibitions unless I was aiming for the gritty grainy look it produces. There's absolutely no detail in the snow, and sharpening is cranked ridiculously high.
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on Apr 25, 2021 20:40:38 GMT
Posted: Apr 25, 2021 20:40:38 GMT
I do like the look of the I4R biggles3, but sometimes my fingers can be a bit too fumbly with small things that really need some finesse. I appreciate the engineering and design though. I can imagine trying to shoot low shots at waters-edge and suddenly finding the i4R at the bottom of the waves, looking back at me. :)
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on Apr 26, 2021 14:36:03 GMT
Last Edit: Apr 26, 2021 14:41:55 GMT by bobblehat: grammar
Thanks Lumi ..... having just had a play with it, I'm tempted to take it out more often when I want to use a very compact camera. I will have to have a go at a comparison with one of the more modern (and a little bulkier) P&S digitals cameras with 20mp ... just out of curiosity! Adding to biggles3 observation on pixel density, that could turn into an apples and elephants comparison with digital. ....... I know what you mean .... but I just had to have a go! I used my Nikon L28 P&S 20MP compact mounted on tripod .... as close settings as I could to the Contax SL300RT ... and no jiggery-pokery post processing except resizing! Same coin shots from the SL300RT as before but repeated in this post to make comparisons easier. SL300RT Full frame reduced to 900px wide Nikon L28 P&S full frame reduced to 900px wide .... notice I could not get as close and also the more vivid colours ........ SL300RT 900px wide crop at 100% Nikon L28 P&S 900px wide crop at 50% (to get rough comparison to above image) and finally .... Nikon L28 P&S 900px wide crop at 100% I leave it to you all to comment!
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on Apr 26, 2021 16:55:22 GMT
Last Edit: Apr 26, 2021 16:57:50 GMT by lumiworx
Well bobblehat ... Both cameras do an admirable job with the task. There are differences in the cameras that are evident when you look at the pictures they produce side by side, and even more so when they're cropped. The Nikon provides crisper detail, while the Contax has tonal subtlety. They're both sufficiently sharp at full frame, and only the crops accentuate how different the resolution is at a pixel level. (I tend to pixel peep for focus accuracy, and not resolution) There are certainly color differences, but that's something that has plagued both chemists and engineers over the whole course of photographing anything in color, no matter what the recording media is. Kodak's Ektachrome or Kodachrome never matched each other, let alone Ektar that can even be further filtered to try to get there as a print film. It's also one of my pet peeves about digital sensors. Engineers and 'colorists' decide a color pallet and profile and how a sensor presents it, and everybody seems to think they have to have "a look"... but, I digress. :) You'd be the one to compare the photo to what you've physically shot to better judge how each sensor was in dealing with color accuracy. Although it's warmer in tone, the Contax seems to handle the translucency of the towel's threads a bit better (similar to 'SSS', Sub Surface Scattering) without sacrificing contrast on the opaque parts. Generally, I think this is a great example of knowing the capabilities of a particular tool, and being able to select the right one and maximize it for the best end result. If I were a coin collector or an engraver who wanted to access details for a purchase or an evaluation of workmanship, the Nikon might work better. If the shot needed to be more ethereal and lean toward the artistic nature of coinage, the Contax might be a better choice. Either shot can be manipulated for color, vignetting, CA, distortions, tonal curves, and more, so lots of things can be tweaked or enhanced. The 'pro' of digital is: it can easily be adjusted; the 'con' of digital: it can easily be adjusted. Sometimes the tool gets in the way too, and it can also boil down to what you had in your hands the moment a shot presented itself, since you don't always have the luxury of choice and miss a unique opportunity entirely.
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on Apr 26, 2021 22:21:08 GMT
Last Edit: Apr 26, 2021 22:22:50 GMT by lumiworx
... I have lost quite a few to girlfriends over the years as they loved the design - one commented that it looked like a scent-spray. This is way off-topic to be sure, but I thought I'd see if I could find a perfume bottle clone. This is close, but not quite there. I'm not sure why, but the real kicker is - their site allows you to search for perfumes by color?!?!
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