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on Nov 5, 2020 8:18:42 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 5, 2020 14:17:55 GMT by flan020
I am trying to sell photographic equipment for elderly friends of mine who recently opened up a cupboard full of vintage cameras. I am no expert - though I do have some experience- and would like some help please as I am trying to sell the items on behalf of the the couple. Among the many items is a beautiful RTS11. It is in a brilliant condition. I had to purchase batteries for the many cameras as they had not seen the light of day for over 20 years. So there is a new battery in the RTS11 and the LED works well. The problem I have is the lenses. There are 2 contax Planar lenses One is a Carl Ziess 1,4/50 (Red T*) the other a Carl Ziess Planar 2/135 (RedT*). When I wind on to take a shot the shutter does not follow through and return. Only when I remove the lens does the shutter complete it's cycle. Having said that There are other lenses that do complete the cycle. Two Yashica lenses. One a ML 50mm 1:2 and the other a Yashica DSB 135mm 1:2.8. These last two lenses obviously work on the camera. Can anyone tell me the problem with the two Carl Ziess lenses? Also. There is a Carl Ziess Jena F=80~200mm 1:4.5~5.6 MC Macro Jena Zoom, that does complete the shooting cycle. I would like help in knowing why the two Planar lenses do not complete the shutter cycle and take the shot? This is without film. Any help appreciated. And the reason for finding the RTS forum is genuine. Thanking all in advance. Michael This is the link to another item that I am trying to sell on behalf of the said couple. www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/445901306379095 I am putting in this addition to show that this is a genuine enquiry. I am not trying to sell anything here I just need to know the answer to my question if known. That is why I came to this Forum.
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on Nov 5, 2020 14:58:52 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 5, 2020 14:59:32 GMT by biggles3
Hello Michael and welcome to our Forum.
I'm assuming that the Planars are working correctly - no issues with their aperture assemblies. If so, I think it possible that your problem with the 2 Planars is that there is a degree of 'mirror slip' on the RTSII; it is not an unknown problem. Can you check that the mirror is seated flush with its holder? With a slip, it can move forwards by a mm or so and that can be enough to foul the rear of some, but not all, lens assemblies. I have an RTSII with the identical issue and have not got around to fixing it yet. If the kit has been stored near a source of heat, the glue that holds the mirror in place can weaken over time allowing the mirror to react to gravity and move forwards as it's typically tilted at 45 degrees unless locked in the up position.
By the way, I'm tempted by that lovely old Voigtlander kit... I had that camera back in the mid-1960s with the Skopagon 40mm lens - amazing quality.
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on Nov 5, 2020 19:56:45 GMT
Posted: Nov 5, 2020 19:56:45 GMT
I'd also suspect the issue is mirror slip, given what you describe. I can offer a couple of quick fixes that will not be permanent, but they'll be enough to confirm what the issue is. There are angled corners on the mirror, so if the full length of those corners are past the edge of the metal plate it's attached to (by 2mm or 1/8 inch or so), it won't function correctly, so you can visually diagnose whether we're on the right track.
1. Pick someplace inside that's warm - but not in front of a direct heat source - and lay the camera on it's back with the mount ring facing up. Let it sit for 24-48 hours, and the mirror should slip back into a more normal position. If the issue goes away when you test it afterwards... it's definitely mirror slip, and as long as the camera is stored on it's back, it should stay put and not cause more problems.
2. With the camera on it's back again - the double-sided adhesive under the mirror can be heated up with no more than 30 seconds or so of mild heat from a hair drier, and it should slowly creep back into position. It will eventually drop down again if left standing up, so this isn't a permanent fix either. If you try this one, put some distance between the camera and drier, so you don't cause other heat issues to pop up.
If your just selling these, and not wanting to fix these to keep for yourself... I'd suggest that you just confirm the issue with fix #1, and inform any buyers that the camera(s) have the known issue of mirror slippage... and let them do the more risky permanent fixes, if they'd choose to. There are permanent fixes for this, but it can go wrong quickly too, and requires some finesse and experience to not ruin the mirror or the pivot plate - or change the reflection angle of the mirror and screw up focusing.
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on Nov 6, 2020 8:34:38 GMT
Posted: Nov 6, 2020 8:34:38 GMT
Morning Biggles & Lumiworx, Well. Thank you both for your help with this matter. You both seem to be of the same opinion. There is a part of my place where I can rest the camera on it's back away from direct heat for the said time by Lumiworx. I will try this today. I really hope the problem will rectify as the camera is in a really first class condition.Rest assured gentlemen I will not sell any of the couples items without giving a true and proper description of any problems. That is not the way to do things. So you can relax on that point. If the camera does not take the quick fix I will have to find a repair place and ask what it would cost to put things right. I am assuming that the items were all stored the same way. At least some of them were. Yesterday I put a new battery into one of the lesser cameras a Praktica BC 1 Electronic. When I put one of the three lenses on that came with it (Prakticar make) the same problem occurred. On the good side. If the cameras do not reach a decent value due to the fault, I have the lenses to hopefully generate some finance for the couple. www.facebook.com/groups/1606000392991160/permalink/2789341074657080I will let you both know if there is any change in the situation in the next few days. Once again. Thank you for your help it is truly appreciated. Best Regards Michael
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on Nov 6, 2020 17:23:55 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 6, 2020 17:32:41 GMT by lumiworx
The reason for my comment on informing buyers is, that it gives them a way to measure the repair cost and/or the time, tools, materials, and expertise to do the job for themselves. I wasn't thinking about buyer deception in an auction or a for-sale listing, and only as a means for them to see true value and future cost. My apologies if it came off as anything else, as it wasn't my intent. As for the 'on the back' fix... make a mental note of how far past the edge the mirror has slipped when you put it in position, to compare how it may move over time until you test it again. There's also one more test scenario you can try. If a Contax camera has mirror slip, not every lens on it will exhibit the same issue under every focus distance. Some lenses have a rear guard piece that never moves, and if the mirror position is off on a camera, it will always interfere with a slipped mirror. Other lenses have a piece that moves as the lens is focused, and will only impede the mirror when it's at or near infinity focus. The 50 Planar (1.4 or 1,7) or the 135mm Sonnar have moving pieces. If the mirror does stick with them, and then 'drops' as the focus is changed, the camera certainly suffers from mirror slip alone. There's only one other issue I've ever read about that has most of the same symptoms, but in this case, changing the focus won't allow the mirror to return to position. It will only right itself when you power off the camera - remove the lens - and power the camera back on without a lens in place. A web search for "Contax mirror slip" will lead you to lots of info on both scenarios. As for getting cameras repaired... Unfortunately there's no authorized repair centers for either Yashica or Contax gear, but there are a few good repair shops that can do general repairs. One place I can offer in the US is Midwest Camera, who are reasonably priced with good turnaround times, and have a good reputation for quality work. midwestcamera.com/film.html For other countries, some of the other EU members here might be able to offer someone local or at least closer that you could mail in for repairs.
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on Nov 6, 2020 20:22:59 GMT
Posted: Nov 6, 2020 20:22:59 GMT
Thank you Lumiworx, I have the RTS laying on it's back gently keeping a nice temperature. I will look tomorrow to see if I can spot any improvement. Think nothing of your opening line. I did not go down that road at all. Thank you for all your input. Best Regards michael
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on Nov 8, 2020 9:41:17 GMT
Posted: Nov 8, 2020 9:41:17 GMT
Good Morning Members., Well, Biggles & Lumiworx. I left the RTS11 in a nice semi-warm area for two days, on it's back. This morning with bated breath I connected the 1st lens, a Planar 1,4/50. Wound on and hoped. No joy; Tried a Planar 2/135. No Joy. Next a Yashica DSB 28mm 1:2.8, no good here either. I then tried a Yashica ML 50mm 1:2. Well this worked on every f stop , but not f16. I then tried a Yashica DSB 135mm 1:2.8. This worked on every f stop. So what conclusion would you make of it? I am of the mind to sell the RTS11 with true description and all the lenses separately. To try and have the RTS repaired may be a bit of a task, but maybe there is someone out there that can turn the RTS around. I mean, it is in a beautiful condition apart from what we all think is 'Mirror Slip'. I could make a post on my local facebook groups to see that maybe there is a camera buff out there that can put this right. If it can be repaired locally then I will purchase it for myself as I had my RTS11 stolen way back in 1993 in Romania. It had a motor wind and two beautiful lenses, actually the two Planars aforementioned. Well thank you for you help chaps. I do have a couple of other Contax lenses I have not tried yet. Had a piece of luck last night to make up for this disappointment with the sale of a Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 1;4/50. So the elderly friends will be pleased. As I am too. Best of luck to all. Best Regards Michael
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on Nov 8, 2020 21:24:43 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 8, 2020 21:25:55 GMT by biggles3
From what you have just said, it still sounds like mirror slip is the most likely culprit. If that mirror has slipped after prolonged storage, a few nights at a more favourable angle may not be enough and as lumiworx stated, a little heat may be needed to encourage the glue to relax its hold sufficiently to allow you to push the mirror back into position. A close-up photo of the front of the mirror would be helpful in determining if we've been wrong in our assessment of the problem. I'm not familiar with the photographic trade in France but I have dealt with Luc Bouvier of french-camera.com and he might be able to recommend a repairer that could tackle the mechanical issue with the RTSII.
Your revelation about your own RTSII being stolen in Romania took me back to 1978 when somewhere between Otopeni Airport, Bucharest and the arrivals hall at London's Heathrow Airport, my Contax RTS, 250 Back & Motor Drive and 3 Zeiss f1.4 lenses - 35, 50 & 85mm - were stolen. 4 other Zeiss lenses, a RTF540 kit plus dozens of AA batteries, 50 rolls of Ektachrome & GAF500 film plus some remote controllers were untouched which is probably why I failed to notice the reduced weight.
I could live with the loss of the hardware - it was all insured - BUT all 250 exposures of Nadia Comaneci in training were still inside the bulk-back. Knowing that the thief would simply rip the film out of the cassette was heart-breaking. Thankfully I was able to continue to work with the gymnasts in Romania until the mid-1980s so all was not lost but I certainly upgraded my suitcase!
Please keep us appraised of any progress with the RTSII; I still firmly believe that mirror-slip is the most likely explanation.
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