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on Jul 18, 2020 13:21:13 GMT
Posted: Jul 18, 2020 13:21:13 GMT
Hello, A friend of mine got few meters of an unknown film and gave me a roll for testing, so I put a little piece of that exposed film in the fixer I use for black and white, and after a minute the film turned transparent as expected but with an orange base, from that I understood that it was not black and white film. Later went to take some test shots with my camera and after developing it with C41 chemicals I ended up with a completely green strip with no pictures on it, here an example:  After processing the film, not matter the result, I was expecting at least to get the brand and type printed on the sides, but there are no marks, nothing pointing out what film it is. Any ideas of what type of film could be and what went wrong with the develop process, and why green as result? Thanks in advance. |
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on Jul 18, 2020 17:02:52 GMT
Posted: Jul 18, 2020 17:02:52 GMT
If there's no edge print, it could be a couple of things that I've seen before. The film has none to begin with, as it's probably meant for duplication work or internegs, or to produce a working positive from a color negative motion picture stock - or - using no development chemicals and a dunk in fixer only wouldn't show anything that should be there. ( Ilford troubleshhoting page) I'm stumped on the green base. Color film is usually orange, and B&W is clear (or a purpley-gray transparent tint), when both are developed normally. What color is the emulsion before any processing? |
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on Jul 19, 2020 7:34:09 GMT
Posted: Jul 19, 2020 7:34:09 GMT
If there's no edge print, it could be a couple of things that I've seen before. The film has none to begin with, as it's probably meant for duplication work or internegs, or to produce a working positive from a color negative motion picture stock - or - using no development chemicals and a dunk in fixer only wouldn't show anything that should be there. ( Ilford troubleshhoting page) It is a complete mystery what happened with that film, for sure I used C-41, not just plain fixer. I still have one more roll but would prefer to expose and develop it once I have a better idea of what is the right process. Thanks for the link to Ilford's troubleshooting page, very interesting. I'm stumped on the green base. Color film is usually orange, and B&W is clear (or a purpley-gray transparent tint), when both are developed normally. What color is the emulsion before any processing? The film is dark brown on the base side and plain brown on the emulsion side, here some captures:   |
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on Jul 19, 2020 14:00:02 GMT
Posted: Jul 19, 2020 14:00:02 GMT
I don't have a lot of color stock in 35, but for what I do have...
The base colors are:
Kodak UltraMax 400: Dark purpley brown
Fuji Superia Xtra 400: Dark grey-ish brown
Kodak Ektar 100: Dark Chocolate brown
Kodak Gold 100: red-ish brown
I've got Porta 160 in 120 rolls, but I'll leave those in foil
The emulsion side on them pretty much matches across the board as a medium creamed coffee brown, but none of them have a base that's near to a deep black-ish brown like yours.
Random thoughts, as I've only done E6 by hand. Is the developer pre-mixed and it's exhausted? Does C41 have dilutions like B&W, and it's too strong? Is it possible it's a cross-processed film like a Kodak BW400CN? With hand-rolled bulk film, there's always a chance there was a light leak somewhere along the line, but getting exposed while stored in a lime green baggie doesn't pop into my mind as a logical answer either.
Speaking of E6 - I don't have any slide film to check, and I don't remember what the base and emulsion colors are. It's been 20+ years, so those mental images are long deleted.
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on Jul 22, 2020 4:47:13 GMT
Posted: Jul 22, 2020 4:47:13 GMT
That happened to me once. I bought a point and shoot camera at a junk shop that still had most of a roll of film in it, so I shot what was left and had it developed. Can't remember what film it was, and the lab didn't bother to save the canister.
PF
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on Jul 22, 2020 11:25:04 GMT
Posted: Jul 22, 2020 11:25:04 GMT
I don't have a lot of color stock in 35, but for what I do have... The base colors are: Kodak UltraMax 400: Dark purpley brown Fuji Superia Xtra 400: Dark grey-ish brown Kodak Ektar 100: Dark Chocolate brown Kodak Gold 100: red-ish brown I've got Porta 160 in 120 rolls, but I'll leave those in foil The emulsion side on them pretty much matches across the board as a medium creamed coffee brown, but none of them have a base that's near to a deep black-ish brown like yours. Random thoughts, as I've only done E6 by hand. Is the developer pre-mixed and it's exhausted? Does C41 have dilutions like B&W, and it's too strong? Is it possible it's a cross-processed film like a Kodak BW400CN? With hand-rolled bulk film, there's always a chance there was a light leak somewhere along the line, but getting exposed while stored in a lime green baggie doesn't pop into my mind as a logical answer either. Speaking of E6 - I don't have any slide film to check, and I don't remember what the base and emulsion colors are. It's been 20+ years, so those mental images are long deleted. Okay, after tracking down the origin of the bulk-roll my friend got that there is a chance that the film could be Agfachrome, meaning that could be slide film that should be processed with its own Agfa AP-41 chemicals, maybe that explains the odd results with C-41. Let's suppose that it is Agfachrome... any ideas of how to process it with the kits available on the market today? |
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on Jul 22, 2020 14:37:38 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 22, 2020 14:41:14 GMT by lumiworx
Frankly, I wasn't aware that Agfa had it's own processing kits at all. I didn't stray beyond Kodak stock when I did shoot or develop slides. After a quick search I did find a site that seems to confirm your suspicions, and shows some green-cast results on long expired Agfa Chrome and a couple of ORWO films... analoguephotolab.com/agfa-process-41/At the bottom of that article there's a 'related' link to A-41 recipes, so there might be ways to substitute the original kits - assuming you're okay with mixing raw chemicals. Here's a link to Agfa's own processing details... www.agfa.com/docs/sp/aerial/agfachrome_agfacolor_processing_2004-06-15_en.pdfI'm not sure where you'd find the chemicals if that's the route you'd want to take. Freestyle doesn't have many, and my guess is that what they have is for their current filmstock, and not generic stuff for old processes. |
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on Jul 23, 2020 12:02:46 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 23, 2020 13:38:36 GMT by xkaes
That film sure looks like color film, as others mentioned.
B&W should be grey to blue, NOT browish/tanish/reddish/orangish/yellowish.
All the Agfachrome (and Aristachrome) I've used -- both ISO 100 & 400, 35mm to 120 to 4x5 -- all worked perfectly with standard E-6. I normally use Unicolor. E-6 should be easy to get. I've never used any Afga chemicals (except Sistan), but I bet its "E-6" is the same except the name.
You can use other chemicals to develop slide film -- if you are into experimentation and weird results, like green skies. Who needs expensive color IR film? 
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on Jul 24, 2020 2:38:21 GMT
Posted: Jul 24, 2020 2:38:21 GMT
Another source with more recipes for Agfa A-41 and ORWO versions too... www.photrio.com/forum/threads/agfachrome-ap-41-formulae-published.135010/xkaes - From what I've been reading, Agfa used a direct positive approach on slide stock up until somewhere into the mid 1980's or so, while Kodak used a reversal step in it's E6 processing, so there wasn't a compatable development process between them by design. Whether it was a patented process they wanted to protect or just a bitter rivalry isn't clear, but Agfa didn't want any other formulas but their own to work. That changed at some point, but for several years, apparently there was no alternative. |
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on Jul 24, 2020 12:34:09 GMT
Posted: Jul 24, 2020 12:34:09 GMT
I never used any of Agfa'a "early" chrome film, but I'd be surprised if any of that was still any good today -- even assuming you could find the correct developer (which would undoubtedly be even in worse shape than the film).
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on Aug 1, 2020 9:59:51 GMT
Posted: Aug 1, 2020 9:59:51 GMT
Thanks both for all the information and links, this took us to a travel back in time when each brand was making their own process before getting into some kind of standard one. The recipes for AP-41 look interesting but not sure if will worth it if I have to find a store where to buy each individual chemical to make it. I will check all your links with detail and try to find if there is a way to process it with the current available chemical kits before getting into alchemy  Thanks again! |
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