Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Nov 8, 2019 21:54:17 GMT
Posted: Nov 8, 2019 21:54:17 GMT
I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with Yashica products produced and sold in Brazil. I came across on oddity while tracking down and verifying model numbers for some of the later digital compacts, and came across this Mercado sales listing for a lot of 10 cameras, with a mix of Yashica and Mitsuca brands. A couple of the Mitsuca's look like a near clone of the Yashica models, so I'm wondering if these are rebranded as Brazilian releases of Yashica models. The web site they have is very, very basic and lacks any product or support details at all. Any ideas?
|
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,039 (562 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Nov 8, 2019 23:29:26 GMT
Posted: Nov 8, 2019 23:29:26 GMT
It would not surprise me if all the cameras you saw were produced by JNC Datum Tech. International, with some being branded Yashica courtesy of mfJebsen who bought the rights from Kyocera, some produced by them earlier on behalf of Kyocera and that could well apply to the Mitsuca-branded bodies. The Brazilian company was only established in 1994 and originally marketed a range of consumer cameras. Although they have now diversified and have a good reputation for more sophisticated equipment in IT and security, they were not manufacturers originally so it's almost certain that Mitsuca cameras were produced for them in China and JNC DTI was one of their major suppliers of low pixel count compact cameras in the 1990s. That would certainly explain the similarities between some of the Mitsuca and Yashica/Kyocera models.
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Nov 9, 2019 4:47:01 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 9, 2019 4:50:25 GMT by lumiworx
The Jebsen/JNC tie-in was on the nose biggles3 ... A later search turned up an OfferUp listing for brand new Yashica F9 digital cameras from a Florida seller who had a carton full for sale at $20 each. One of the pictures posted shows the back of the box with their logos prominently displayed. This now brings up the question of whether any of these should be considered 'true' Yashica cameras...? I've found at least a half dozen models like them, and I'm not inclined to add them to the historical list if they really have no place there. Is it possible that these were Brazilian market cameras and were never intended for export? Obviously they made it to the US as part of the secondary market, but I wonder if they are Yashica products in name only, and the licensing deal was the only link.
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 285 (39 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status:
|
|
on Nov 9, 2019 11:04:13 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 10, 2019 23:08:35 GMT by lumiworx: (removed extra white space)
On my home-made Yashica Family Tree chart, it shows the 1st camera Yashica Brazil made was the 1979 ME-1 35mm compact. Closely following was the MF-1 and the nice TLR, the MAT 124B. I grabbed a translation off Yashica Brazil's website over 15 years ago and it read (approximately) . . . Yashica - A History of ExcellenceYashica, which has been producing cameras in Brazil since 1979, was the pioneer in the production of precision photographic cameras.Kyocera Yashica do Brazil dominates technology for the production of optical parts and fine mechanics, which guarantees the precision and quality of its cameras. These features have been recognized not only by the Brazilian people, who have maintained the company as a leader in the market for years, but also by foreigners, which makes the company proud of being one of the three world suppliers of cameras of the Kyocera Group.Kyocera Yashica do BrazilThe Yashica cameras, one of the traditional and highly-respected names of the photographic cameras in the world, has been a favourite one in the Brazilian market as well. Some remarkable moments of its presence in Brazil can be seen below:- The company, initially named Yashica do Brazil, started its trading activities in Brazil in 1975 with the opening of a subsidiary from Yashica Co., Ltd., for direct trading of its products.
- In 1979, with the restriction to importations policy imposed shortly after, it was decided that the company would be set up in Brazil for good, producing quality photographic cameras in the city of Sorocaba.
- In 1983, as Kyocera Yashica, the company inaugurated the present industrial plant in the same city, introducing a production technology transfer of micro-precision and optical parts non-existent in the country.
Kyocera Yashica do Brazil continues to invest not only in the expansion and modernization of its industrial plant, but also in the development of Brazilian professionals to such an extent that today it can develop its own technology, following the most strict international standards, actively surrounded by all the technological advances in the field.From 1979 Y do B made cameras with the same names as their Japanese cousins and cameras with names not seen from Japan i.e. "Brisa" & "Plena". About 2002 it seems that with the introduction of digital compacts (EZ Digital 2.1) the production in Brazil gets blurred – I cannot tell if cameras such as the MY300, CX400 or the wonderfully named "Memories" 2005 and "Classy" 2005 were made in Brazil or elsewhere. Now these models and the later “Poetic” and “Splendor” were brought out in Brazil before the involvement of JNC Datum Tech in 2007, but were they home grown by Y do B or imported cameras?
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 132 (14 liked)
Join date: September 2017
Status:
|
|
on Nov 9, 2019 11:08:41 GMT
Posted: Nov 9, 2019 11:08:41 GMT
|
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,039 (562 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Nov 9, 2019 11:34:13 GMT
Posted: Nov 9, 2019 11:34:13 GMT
The Jebsen/JNC tie-in was on the nose biggles3 ... A later search turned up an OfferUp listing for brand new Yashica F9 digital cameras from a Florida seller who had a carton full for sale at $20 each. One of the pictures posted shows the back of the box with their logos prominently displayed. This now brings up the question of whether any of these should be considered 'true' Yashica cameras...? I've found at least a half dozen models like them, and I'm not inclined to add them to the historical list if they really have no place there. Is it possible that these were Brazilian market cameras and were never intended for export? Obviously they made it to the US as part of the secondary market, but I wonder if they are Yashica products in name only, and the licensing deal was the only link. When is a Yashica not a Yashica is, I suppose, the question. Concerning the low pixel count compact cameras, I would suggest that all of the most recent ones have no Yashica heritage other than the licensed use of the name to try to give some respectability to some very basic kit. Some of the earliest ones which carry both the Kyocera and Yashica brands probably should still be considered Yashicas as, regardless of the place of manufacture, they were produced under the imprimatur of Kyocera and so form part of the Yashica family. Any camera that carried the Yashica brand purely as a marketing ploy after Kyocera had sold the naming rights is not, imho, a true Yashica and so could be omitted from your list. They could reasonably form an addendum to the true list.
But that brings us to the issue of Yashica.com...
If you look at the Yashica website, the only cameras they show are the MF-1 Snapshot Art, a very basic point-and-shoot film camera, and the Y35 digiFilm which has received pretty awful reviews. The Y35 certainly harks back to classic Yashica rangefinders in its appearance and if I found one for a cheap price, I'd buy it and shoot using the monochrome 'cassette/SD card' as all the colour ones seem a little 'off'. I have not seen either camera in the flesh so to speak but what is interesting with the Y35 is that the fixed 35mm lens at least states Yashica and Japan. Some while back, mfJebsen announced two new Kickstarter campaigns to fund a remake of the original Yashica MF-2 and also a 35mm version of the Yashica 44 TLR, the latter scheduled to launch its funding campaign next month; after the heavy criticism of the Y35, I would be surprised if either project found sufficient backing but we'll have to wait and see... If either of these saw the light of day, we would probably have to include them in the list.
The sad conclusion is that the owners of the marque, in their haste to exploit the brand, have only served to damage it with the rush-to-market of their post-Kyocera cameras. One more failure to inspire like the Y35 and you can kiss a final goodbye to the reputation of what was once one of the great manufacturers of quality photographic equipment. Thank goodness that no one has done the same to the Contax marque - yet.
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 285 (39 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status:
|
|
on Nov 9, 2019 20:30:31 GMT
Posted: Nov 9, 2019 20:30:31 GMT
I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with Yashica products produced and sold in Brazil. I came across on oddity while tracking down and verifying model numbers for some of the later digital compacts, and came across this Mercado sales listing for a lot of 10 cameras, with a mix of Yashica and Mitsuca brands. A couple of the Mitsuca's look like a near clone of the Yashica models, so I'm wondering if these are rebranded as Brazilian releases of Yashica models. The web site they have is very, very basic and lacks any product or support details at all. Any ideas? But the question is even wider than the JNC connection! Much wider and very much earlier than their involvement in the name. As implied in the OP ….. what are Brazilian (Yashica) cameras …. and what aren't? To put it in perspective and to redress a very ignored part of Yashica heritage, we have to look back to 1975 and then forward to really understand what a Brazilian Yashica is! All research here adds to the knowledge and understanding of the real late great company - Yashica!
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Nov 10, 2019 4:05:20 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 10, 2019 4:06:11 GMT by lumiworx
To assuage anyone's idea that I would be including any of the comically sad products coming out of the new Chinese 'Yashica' group... that will absotively, posolutely NOT happen.
On the flip side of that, there's a Brazilian distribution company that appreciated Yashica, and that extended to Kyocera later on. Someone obviously wanted to keep a quality line of products available in their country, and time and money was spent to build a local production plant to overcome the import limits with 'Made in Brazil' products. I don't really see that any differently than Zeiss lenses made in Japan can somehow become less 'Zeiss-ish'. It's more in the vein of a partnership, than simply a licensing scheme. These look to have the same pedigree as any other Yashica/Kyocera product, where the design and tooling and parts are as 'official' as it gets. It stands to reason, for me anyway, that they are probably more Yashica or Kyocera in heritage, than some of the Cosina made lenses ever were. The factory in Brazil was equal to the Hong Kong factory built during the Kyocera rescue, so geographic location alone shouldn't be a deciding factor for anything.
The models I've found so far that I'm still investigating seem to come along some time after the EZ 3010 and the Finecam S3 compact digital models. I suspect that I'll find more of these. Note the 'F'xxx pattern in some of the model names, but I don't know if that has any significance. The Yashica F9 is obviously one with a Jebsen & JDN origin, and I see no reason for it to be considered anything more than an in-name-only offshoot, and wouldn't fit into the family tree from my perspective. Some (or all) of these might be the same offshoots too.
Suspect lineup: Yashica EZ F924 / Yashica EZ 7032 / Yashica EZ F524 / Yashica EZ F524 Mk II / Yashica MY 300 / Yashica LS 5325
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 285 (39 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status:
|
|
on Nov 10, 2019 12:18:23 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 10, 2019 13:15:14 GMT by bobblehat: Spelling/grammar
To assuage anyone's idea that I would be including any of the comically sad products coming out of the new Chinese 'Yashica' group... that will absotively, posolutely NOT happen. . . . . I understand ….and that is entirely your choice, after all, it's your chart! I have taken a different route on my chart. In order that viewers in the future are not wondering why a "Yashica" camera is not on the chart, I have included all cameras with the Yashica name on them, and marked the ones that are from the JNC group under its own section. Likewise, with cameras made in Brazil, they have their own section too. There are quite a few cameras before the EZ3010(see note below) that were made in Brazil. Here is a list of the ones I had found on the YdoB website in the past :- ME-1 1979 MF-1 1980 MAT 124B 1981 MF-3 (Black) 1985 MF-3 (Yellow) 1985 Motor J 1988 MF Motor 1988 MF-3 Super "Carnaval" Date? DF-100AF 1990 MG-3 1992 YK-35 1991 MG Motor 1994 MG Motor-No flash switch (Silver) 1995 MG Motor-No flash switch (Champagne) 1995 YM 1996 YMS 1996 YMS (Date) 1996 YM-2 (Silver) 1996 YM-2 (Champagne) 1996 YM-2 (Date) 1996 MF-30 (Silver) 1998 MF-30 (Black) 1998 MF-30 (Blue) 1998 Brisa (Black) 2000 Brisa (Silver) 2000 Plena (Black) 2000 Plena (Silver) 2000 Plena (Champagne) 2000 Plena Date (Black) 2000 Plena Date (Silver) 2000 Plena Date (Champagne) 2000 Plena DATA 2000 MC-28 2002 EZ Digital 2.1 (Light Blue) 2003 EZ Digital 2.1 (Lavender) 2003 EZ Digital 2.1 (Charcoal) 2003 EZ Zoom 70 2004 MY 300 2004 CX 400 2004 Yashica KYV-3000 2005 Ky303 (EZ Digital 3012) 2005 Memories 2005 Classy 2005 Poetic 2006 Splendor 2006 MS6000 2007 LS5325 2007 DZ5340 2007 DZ5340S 2007 Photos are available for most of the above (some of them quite low resolution). Note: I had not seen before that the EZ Digital 3010 was made or distributed in Brazil, although the Ky300 looks identical to the EZ Digital 3012. Not directly connected with Brazil, I have noted that a distinct change in "style" from previous SL300R/400R, and the earlier Finecam range, occurred about 2004. Starting with the EZ-Digital 2010 (date 2004), and then the 3010 etc, a range of compact digital cameras came out sporting both the Kyocera and Yashica logos that were distributed in the Australia, Italy and Czech Republic markets … and apparently nowhere else. This continued with a total of approximately 16 different digital cameras up to 2007 (list available). Were these cameras the start (or at least a new supplier) of the bought-in, Yashica badged, digital cameras?
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Nov 10, 2019 16:46:28 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 10, 2019 16:53:00 GMT by lumiworx
Thanks for sharing parts of your list bobblehat ... The mention of the EZ 3010 and the Finecam S3 were just a reference to the known Yashica and Kyocera digital compact models (both Japan) that I had firm dates for. I didn't mean to infer either or both models were from the Brazilian factory or exported for a country-specific purpose. I want to make sure that I can include any 'Made in Brazil' specific model names and dates that have been missed up till now. If there were any models that were rebranded to Mitsuca, I'd wanted to note those as well - but - that certainly doesn't seem to apply. The list that any of these are destined for would be part of what will be included on the vintage-yashica.com website. That site would only focus on what was produced by the combined talents gathered under the Yashica/Contax/Zeiss/Kyocera branded product line of Yashica Co., Ltd. from its 1949 beginnings to it's demise in 2005 (extended in some respects to 2015), and nothing from any later licensing agreements. I don't dispute that there's a legitimate owner of the name, only that it doesn't fit the company structure that I'm interested in highlighting on the site. The engineering and design that was essentially 'Yashica' stopped at that announced end point. No intellectual property, parts, factory tooling, machinery, or any other assets made it into the hands of another company, nor did any of the people talent that was behind the product line (as far as I know), so for all intents and purposes, having legal ownership of the name that gets stamped onto anything that came afterwards, won't give the namesake the value, heritage, and respect of its origins. The 1949-2005 years are basically the 'vintage' half of 'vintage-yashica'. What happens after that era can be explored and documented by someone other than me. I'd like to think that there's value in drawing a line to distinguish the two parts of history. And honestly, the brouhaha over the Y35 an what came after it, was the spark that got me started on this project in the first place.
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 285 (39 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status:
|
|
on Nov 10, 2019 21:18:32 GMT
Posted: Nov 10, 2019 21:18:32 GMT
. . . I want to make sure that I can include any 'Made in Brazil' specific model names and dates that have been missed up till now. If there were any models that were rebranded to Mitsuca, I'd wanted to note those as well - but - that certainly doesn't seem to apply . . . . That in my eyes would be a very good thing to do. There are models that were produced in Brazil that show the Yashica company name that deserve to be documented even though they rarely, if ever, appeared in Japanese, USA, European and other markets. I assume (maybe incorrectly) that the ME-1 or Motor J (as examples) would be virtually functionally and design-wise indistinguishable whether it originated from Japan or Brazil . . . but more importantly, other models not produced outside of the Brazilian plant should surely be acknowledged as part of the pre-JNC era heritage of Yashica. Somehow, an image of a Brazilian VW Type 2 keeps popping into my mind as I type my replies . . . it is good that it's history has been documented too
|
|