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on Oct 2, 2019 17:04:39 GMT
Posted: Oct 2, 2019 17:04:39 GMT
Hi everyone,
I had not come across this branding on the medical variant of the Contax RX before...
Kyocera Medical 100 f8
I have pulled this image from a current Ebay listing - there are in fact a few for sale from 2 Japanese sellers. I suspect they were sold exclusively in Japan. |
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on Oct 2, 2019 23:57:58 GMT
Posted: Oct 2, 2019 23:57:58 GMT
After recently digging into Yashica's history and especially their product releases near the end, I've seen a few things that are at odds with the 'official' announcements. This might be another one of those cases. It's evident that Kyocera was still producing, distributing, and selling cameras after the closing of Yashica and well past the 2005 declaration of 'the end'.
The medical and scientific end of the business would be left high and dry with no products to offer an industry that doesn't ever seem to move at a fast pace for photographic tools. Without the Dental Eye, and the Medical 100, there really wasn't a lot of choices for hand-held and dead-simple photographic gear. I think Kyocera was put in a spot and felt pressured to release Yashica designed products under their own name - and that wasn't just the medical stuff. Nikon and Lester Dine had macro add-on lens kits, but only Yashica had an all-in-one solution that almost anyone could use.
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on Oct 3, 2019 8:33:24 GMT
Posted: Oct 3, 2019 8:33:24 GMT
One should pick a screwdriver to peek inside ... if there's really a hidden RX in the RX-shaped body.
(BTW ... does anyone have the specification for the external power supply?)
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on Oct 3, 2019 10:33:28 GMT
Last Edit: Oct 3, 2019 10:35:59 GMT by lumiworx
As far as I've been able to pull out so far - for all the various dental cameras... Marketed and distributed by: Tokyo Shizaisha Co. Ltd. Model - Dental version release dates: Yashica Oral eye, based on the Electro 35 GT, modified w/ fixed 55mm f/4 Macro- 1968 Yashica Dental Eye (I) w/ 55mm f/4, based on the FX-D - 1985 Yashica Dental Eye II w/ 100mm f/4, based on the Yashica 107 MP - 1990 Yashica Dental Eye III w/ 100mm f/4, based on the Contax RX - 1997 This Kyocera version looks identical to the DE III. Depending on when it was manufactured, it might use either the original RX (first released in 1994), or the RX II (from 2002) matthiasausk ... The 'wall wart' used on both the DE II and III was, according to the manuals: Input: 120v AC (US plug) Output: DC 4.5v, at 1600 mA (DE II), or 2000 mA (DE III) Flash recharge: approx. 2.5 seconds 2 Meter cord I'm aware of the optional data back available for the DE I, but I don't think that it had an external AC supply. The Oral Eye accessories are a mystery for me - if it had any at all. |
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on Oct 3, 2019 11:31:18 GMT
Posted: Oct 3, 2019 11:31:18 GMT
Thanks, lumiworx!
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on Oct 3, 2019 11:37:21 GMT
Posted: Oct 3, 2019 11:37:21 GMT
Hi lumiworx,
There was also a version of the Dental Eye based on the FX-3 Super 2000 which was the only FX-3 model to carry a data-back; the back was marked: DENTAL EYE DATA BACK Q and featured an electronic unit that was attached to the hot shoe and carried a cable from it to the battery compartment of the back. I have only ever seen the camera and back - the one I saw had been 'dismantled from its 100mm lens' and was being sold on Ebay in February of this year. I do recall it was a US seller. It was so unusual that I copied an image of the back of the camera as I'd never even heard of a Data Back Q but from the look of it, a few must have been manufactured. I don't recall any information on how power was provided for the flash in the lens but there is a small socket to the rear of the unit that attached to the hot shoe which may have helped I some way. I always wondered if this was a camera made to work with the DX-100mm f4 and not, as described, one with an integrated lens. It might have made sense to offer the alternative of a cheaper, mechanically-shuttered camera with a unique data recording capability but I would still have expected it to be paired with the Dental/Medical lens and not integrated with it. Perhaps it was designed to help shift the remaining DX-100s at a bargain price when compared with the DEII or DEIII units.
If it's of any interest, I can have a hunt for the photo I grabbed from Ebay of the camera back. |
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on Oct 3, 2019 19:33:23 GMT
Posted: Oct 3, 2019 19:33:23 GMT
Thanks biggles3 ... I did a quick search and I found one that's currently for sale on ebay, and from the description it's listed as a NOS part. The covering is badly cracked, but it's described as 'new in box', so it seems that this was available as a separate accessory, and it was labeled as specific to the Dental Eye cameras. (puzzle piece 1) Another oddity with identification... I have 2 of the DE-I's, but neither has the back. The 1985 date of production of these wouldn't be a match to them being based on either of the FX-3 Supers', but they could be a match for the original FX-3 version produced from October, 1979 to October, 1984. Most photos showing an attached data back I've run across shows the same body/lens/battery-box setup I have, that are paired with a 'Dental Eye Data Back Q' suggesting that it was the data back for all DE-I's. (puzzle piece 2) The battery box on the DE-I is hardwired and fully integrated onto the body. It is exactly the same shell and battery carrier that's used in the FX-D Winder. The DE-I uses a totally different set of knobs, buttons, and top plate, than is used on any other Yashica body. The bottom plate that the battery box attaches to has matching screw hole locations to the FX-D's bottom plate and body base. I haven't tried to swap the plates on non-DE versions, but it wouldn't surprise me at all that the advance levers will fit either body, and they definitely are not using the FX-D's lever or shutter speed dial on the first DE. Obviously the mechanical shutter wasn't from the FX-D, so it's far more likely the FX-3 was the base of the body and its mirror box, but I don't have a v.1 FX-3 to compare with. (puzzle piece 3)  (FX-D w/ winder, from Mike Butkus's FX-D HTML manual page)  (My re-covered DE-I) The more I look at all the parts used, the more it looks like it's a mix and match of both the FX-D and the first FX-3 body's parts and accessories used over the entire DE-I model line from start to finish. There are some unique control parts to be sure, but the underlying parts wouldn't have to be unique to only the Dental Eye. All the puzzle pieces seem to fall into a logical whole to become the DE-I, whether it came in a complete bundle with every accessory, or just a basic but expandable kit. Here's a DPReview forum post on a DE-I lens conversion that has multiple photos of the tear-down body and lens parts during the process. One last bit... I have the DE-I's and a DE-III, but not the Oral Eye or the DE-II. There's an ebay listing for a DE-II that shows it's integrated back as a "Yashica Data Back DA-1" with no mention of 'dental'. The DE-III's integrated back has no markings at all for any name or model/version of the back itself. |
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on Oct 4, 2019 9:54:32 GMT
Posted: Oct 4, 2019 9:54:32 GMT
I would love to see the instruction sheet for the Data Back Q; I'm curious to know if the batteries are inserted in the usual way into the data back or are they intended for the synch unit on the hot shoe?
I have the FX Data Back Quartz on all my FX-A bodies and it appears to offer identical data inputs to those of the Data Back Q so I assume that DEI would have used the FX-D's Data Back Quartz.
Of course, a special assembly would have been required for the FX-3-based Dental Eye cameras as none of the three FX-3 models had removable backs, so the Data Back Q being offered (for a ridiculous price!!) on Ebay can't be fitted without a bit of disassembling of the camera. |
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on Oct 5, 2019 19:52:05 GMT
Last Edit: Oct 5, 2019 19:53:04 GMT by lumiworx
My earlier searches turned up 2 links to the (supposedly) original manuals. Both were at 2 of the for-pay camera manual sites, and both had an $18 price tag, and nether had pictures. I had no luck in finding any freebies. I did notice on on another used camera site, that described the $250 'Q' back they had, as a "D7 DATA BACK Q MULTI FUNCTIONS X 167MT AS NEW WITH PACKAGING". I'm not sure why there's a 'Q' in there, but I suspect it was a typo. Like you, biggles3, I've never come across any data backs already mounted on an FX-3, or seen a separate back for one up for sale. I pulled both DE-I's and neither had the 'sliding-slot' type hinge pin on the back - but - they do have spring loaded hinge pins that are easy to compress, and then swap backs when removed. They will shoot out like a cannon, so they're not an ideal way to swap out parts. |
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on Oct 8, 2019 3:10:42 GMT
Posted: Oct 8, 2019 3:10:42 GMT
Hi lumiworx,
Here's the piccie I grabbed from Ebay some while ago.
FX3 Super 2000 Data Back Q
As you can see, it is definitely attached to a FX-3.
I wish I could have afforded to buy the camera at the time but it was a high asking price and with UK Customs charges and the cost of shipping, it was never going to happen. |
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on Oct 8, 2019 19:14:15 GMT
Last Edit: Oct 8, 2019 19:46:58 GMT by lumiworx
Speaking of the data backs on FX series cameras... I ran across an ebay sale for a manual that came with a non-dental FX back, which I hadn't seen before. It's model name as-printed is 'FX Data Back Quartz', so presumably the "Q" from the dental back refers to the Quartz-based timing circuits. Essentially they look identical, with only the Model name labeling being different. This FX back doesn't show up in the 1982-83 Yashica/Contax price sheet or any dealer notebook copies I have that include accessory details on all of the FX models it would fit. It is mentioned in the HTML manual for the FX-103 Program body on Mike Butkus' site. I'll try to find a hard copy of all the FX models I might have to see what's there. A thorough search on Tokyo Shizaisha Co.'s site for old info on the DE cameras turns up nothing about any Yashica products, and I had no luck with web searches for anything related to sales or marketing. Even using the 'WayBack Machine', there's nothing popping up from 2001 to now that is for a camera, or anything made by Yashica, or even photographic products in general. I find that odd that if they were the exclusive distributor for Yashica's 'Dental' line of products, that there's zero info on the site. How were they marketed and advertised to the market they were meant for? The Yashica catalogs and price sheets have the expected information for the Medical 100 series of lenses, and all of the various accessories it offered, but nothing on the Dental Eye's of any version. Back to biggles3 first post... The last official web page I could find in the WayBack archive on the DE-III is from June 2007 (cached from the kyoceraimaging.com site, that took over from the yashica.com site) and the tiny photos remaining in the archive show the "Yashica" name on the finder. Plus - it's another case where the 2005 ending date for Yashica sales wasn't exactly true. There's one other oddity in the model names that popped up out of the old yashica.com archive ... The text on the web link for the DE-II from April 16th 1997, states: "Dental Eye II Specs / Yashica M.E. 1000 Specification". I assume that means 'Medical Eye 1000'. I've never seen that name or designation used, and the only manuals I've seen use the Dental Eye name in the title or text. To take it up one more notch, there's a Duracell Battery and Charger spec page for that very camera! If an exact match for the model name is used in a web search, the only results shown are for the batteries and chargers. I knew they were Lithium, but not that they could be recharged?!? |
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on Oct 8, 2019 21:36:35 GMT
Last Edit: Oct 8, 2019 21:43:29 GMT by lumiworx
After a few more searches, I'll need to backtrack on the idea that the FX back and the Q back are identical. The FX back doesn't have any type of external connectivity like the Q back does in its flash shoe cable. The FX back handles it's power and data internally, by I assume, plated metal contacts, instead of the Q's cable assembly. Otherwise they appear to be the same, but it isn't obvious if that means they are at all compatible.
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on Oct 9, 2019 1:09:42 GMT
Last Edit: Oct 9, 2019 13:57:54 GMT by biggles3: Added photo of back
Hi lumiworx,
I have the FX Data Back Quartz fitted to my FX-As and a FX-103. It is essentially the same unit as the Contax D-4/D-5 and is powered by the usual two LR44 cells.
FX-A FX Data Back Quartz
Neither the FX-D or FX-70 have removable back-plates so the back was not intended for their use. |
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on Nov 7, 2019 18:49:57 GMT
Last Edit: Nov 7, 2019 18:55:03 GMT by lumiworx
biggles3 ... I just came across the ebay listing that seems to be for the same Kyocera Medical 100 you posted earlier. It could be that these weren't targeted to only the Japanese market. The last image in that listing shows a shot of the manual's cover page, with english text used for everything, and another shot shows the 'warning sticker' in both Japanese and English. I would assume if it were only meant for one market, it would have Japanese (or another country's) characters used for the text portions, and probably unlikely that there'd be a bilingual sticker. 'Western' numerals for lens specs might be universal in any language, but model descriptions and 'Rev #' info wouldn't seem to be language specific. Is Kyocera's textual logo the only one they use besides the red stylized "K"? If that's all they use, then the prism logo wouldn't help decipher what the market target would be.
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on Nov 8, 2019 11:11:34 GMT
Posted: Nov 8, 2019 11:11:34 GMT
biggles3 ... I just came across the ebay listing that seems to be for the same Kyocera Medical 100 you posted earlier. It could be that these weren't targeted to only the Japanese market. The last image in that listing shows a shot of the manual's cover page, with english text used for everything, and another shot shows the 'warning sticker' in both Japanese and English. I would assume if it were only meant for one market, it would have Japanese (or another country's) characters used for the text portions, and probably unlikely that there'd be a bilingual sticker. 'Western' numerals for lens specs might be universal in any language, but model descriptions and 'Rev #' info wouldn't seem to be language specific. Is Kyocera's textual logo the only one they use besides the red stylized "K"? If that's all they use, then the prism logo wouldn't help decipher what the market target would be. My initial assumption about them being primarily intended for the Japanese market was almost certainly wrong. A lot of these Medical 100 kits were bought in the USA, probably following the popularity of the original DX-100 f4 Medical/Dental lens among US Dentists, Hospitals and forensics photographers. Interestingly, there is an identical kit but carrying the late Yashica logo on the pentaprism for sale on Ebay in the US. By and large, it seems the Dental Eye 1 featured the FX-3 variant, usually with the short lens and the Auto-Winder acting instead as the power source for the modelling and flash lights; the Dental Eye II was based on the Yashica 107, usually with the DA-1 Date back, and with its special Power Adapter base that provided auto-wind and power for the 2 lights; and the Dental Eye III used the modified Contax RX.
But there are further variants out there as I had a pal who was a dentist in Trenton and he had 2 modified Contax 167MT's with their P-5s adapted to power the lights and what looked like the power pack from the RTF540. At the time I had a DX-100 and was using it with various Contax and Yashica bodies so I asked him why the extra cost, and limited versatility, of the 167 kit and he said that Yashica in the US had produced a small number of them and made him an offer that was too good to refuse; I've yet to see any of them emerge for sale. I wonder if they were a bit like the FX-3 Half-Frame cameras issued to several UK Police Forces where, in response to a meaningful enquiry, the national distributor finds a specialist to carry out the necessary modifications and sells them directly to the end user, which would have been a Government Department in the case of the FX-3 half-frame cameras. Perhaps the US 167MT kits were produced in response to an enquiry from a similar organisation and some prototypes produced...
I'd be curious to know when Yashica/Kyocera stopped manufacturing the stand-alone DX-100 lens kit and started integrating the lens with a camera; I would assume there was an overlap.
And the hardest item to find included in all these kits? The lens doubler. Yashica ones are like gold dust though the Kyocera ones for the Dental Eye II/III can be found more easily - there are some on Ebay right now.
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