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on Oct 2, 2016 19:12:26 GMT
Posted: Oct 2, 2016 19:12:26 GMT
Is it possible that the earlier Yashinon 500mm f8 was single-coated and that the later Yashica DX 500mm f8 was multi-coated?
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on Oct 3, 2016 3:18:07 GMT
Last Edit: Oct 3, 2016 3:18:51 GMT by biggles3
I will try to find out for you.
The Yashica lens designators can be misleading; for example, some DX lenses are single coated and others are multicoated. The original Tomioka-manufactured Yashinon 500 reflex was single coated. As you know, the only confirmed version of the Yashica 500 f8 reflex lens that is multicoated is the final ML-designated one. However, I have seen claims that the C/Y bayonet lens marked simply as Yashica 500 f8 Reflex was also multicoated but I've never found confirmation of this; the key is whether the Yashinon-DX 500 - also made at the Tomioka facility - had multiple coatings as the Yashica 500 f8 Reflex is a clone of the DX.
What I can say with certainty is that the superior ML coating was only applied to the final version of the lens but that does not exclude the strong possibility that the DX had multiple coatings - just not the formula used for ML lenses. If that is the case, the coatings would almost certainly be similar to the ones on Yashica's DS-M lenses, which were pretty impressive at rendering accurate colours and providing strong contrast. Both the Yashinon-DX and Yashica Reflex versions of the 500 f8 show these characteristics which leads me to suspect that they did indeed have multiple coatings, just not the ML type.
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on Oct 3, 2016 12:16:36 GMT
Posted: Oct 3, 2016 12:16:36 GMT
Thanks for the help and info, but now the plot thickens. Here's what I have garnered in chronological order from various sources:
Reflex Yashinon-DX 500mm 1:8 Yashica (fixed 42mm Universal screw mount) -- probably all were single-coated
Yashica Lens Reflex 500mm 1:8 Yashica (C/Y bayonet mount) -- probably all were single-coated but maybe some late ones multi-coated. Same lens as the Reflex Yashinon-DX 500mm 1:8 Yashica but with a different mount.
Yashica Lens ML Reflex 500mm 1:8 (C/Y bayonet mount) -- probably all were multi-coated but maybe some early ones single-coated. Smaller, lighter lens than the Yashica Lens Reflex 500mm 1:8 Yashica with the tripod mount removed.
Am I getting close to the truth?
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on Oct 3, 2016 12:46:04 GMT
Posted: Oct 3, 2016 12:46:04 GMT
That's getting pretty close.
ALL of the ML-designated lenses were multicoated and most, if not all, of the C/Y Reflex 500 were multicoated but not ML-coated.
There were also 2 versions of the C/Y Reflex 500mm - one with an in-built hood and a tripod collar and the other without the tripod collar and having an attachable lens hood - which slightly complicates matters. Unfortunately I no longer have both versions so I can't compare them directly; I'll try to find my notes on them and see if that brings further light to the situation or merely serves to complicate matters even more.
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on Oct 3, 2016 13:19:15 GMT
Last Edit: Oct 3, 2016 13:49:46 GMT by xkaes
So it sounds like -- MAYBE -- the first version of the C/Y Reflex 500mm was the same as the earlier Yashinon DX 500mm and still possibly single-coated, while the later version of the C/Y Reflex might be the same as the later ML 500mm and probably mutli-coated (but not ML coated). In any event it sounds like few of the NON-ML C/Y 500mm lenses were made. That would give us this:
Reflex Yashinon-DX 500mm 1:8 Yashica (fixed 42mm Universal screw mount) -- probably all were single-coated. Built-in sliding lens shade and rotating tripod socket.
Yashica Lens Reflex 500mm 1:8 Yashica Early Version (C/Y bayonet mount) -- probably all were single-coated but maybe some late ones multi-coated. Same lens as the Reflex Yashinon-DX 500mm 1:8 Yashica but with a different mount. Built-in sliding lens shade and rotating tripod socket.
Yashica Lens Reflex 500mm 1:8 Yashica Late Version (C/Y bayonet mount) -- probably all were multi-coated but maybe some early ones single-coated. Tripod mount and built-in lens shade removed resulting in a lighter lens -- perhaps a new lens design and smaller body as well.
Yashica Lens ML Reflex 500mm 1:8 (C/Y bayonet mount) -- probably all had the new, ML multi-coating but maybe some early ones might have had non-ML multi-coating. Perhaps an even smaller, lighter body and lens design.
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on Oct 3, 2016 17:44:10 GMT
Posted: Oct 3, 2016 17:44:10 GMT
That's about right (though I still need to check out some of the info) but you can be more definite about the ML.
ALL of the ML-designated lenses had the ML multi-coating and a completely new optical design that resulted in a more compact and lighter lens of outstanding sharpness. All the 500 reflex lenses from the Yashinon DX onwards have earned a reputation for sharpness and good contrast - it is just that the ML is in a league of its own.
Put 131953919273 into the Search box on your local Ebay site and you can see what looks like a perfect example of the ML - but with a high starting price of 400 Euros...! I'm not sure they'll sell it with that as a starting price because most people don't understand the amazing quality of the lens is and Yashica is not a fashionable brand in the way that Zeiss is. But to an informed photographer looking for a truly sharp 500 f8 mirror lens, it would be worth every penny.
I should add one afterthought - although the ML is the best 500 f8 ever made, for those anxious about chroma artefacts, the C/Y Reflex provides the best images on most DSLRs or mirrorless system cameras. |
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on Oct 4, 2016 18:01:31 GMT
Posted: Oct 4, 2016 18:01:31 GMT
Hello,
I don't get anything for the "131953919273" on EBAY, but I do see that an ML 500mm recently sold in the UK for $150 while an MF 500mm sold for $300. I guess the buyer thought the MF was ML while the seller just meant "MANUAL FOCUS"!
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on Oct 4, 2016 21:47:37 GMT
Last Edit: Oct 5, 2016 0:01:08 GMT by biggles3
Hi - I don't know why that ML never appeared in my Ebay search as I would have bought it for that price - of course, you never know what the winner's top price might have been. I don't know which part of the world you are living in but if you go to www.ebay.it and put in 131953919273 into the search box it will show you the ML set.
I am very annoyed to see Team-Foto listing a 'ML 500' (item: 401090311036) which is obviously just a Reflex 500 - I told them the last time they listed it in June that it was wrong - I even sent them a photo of a ML version as proof - but they've done it again! An easy way to check of course is that the ML serial number NEVER appears on the disc at the front of the lens - it is stamped near the base preceded by the letter 'A' as with nearly all ML lenses. |
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on Oct 5, 2016 6:06:41 GMT
Posted: Oct 5, 2016 6:06:41 GMT
Hi - I don't know why that ML never appeared in my Ebay search as I would have bought it for that price - of course, you never know what the winner's top price might have been. I don't know which part of the world you are living in but if you go to www.ebay.it and put in 131953919273 into the search box it will show you the ML set.
I am very annoyed to see Team-Foto listing a 'ML 500' (item: 401090311036) which is obviously just a Reflex 500 - I told them the last time they listed it in June that it was wrong - I even sent them a photo of a ML version as proof - but they've done it again! An easy way to check of course is that the ML serial number NEVER appears on the disc at the front of the lens - it is stamped near the base preceded by the letter 'A' as with nearly all ML lenses. Gosh, thanks for this info, Graham! I was actually contemplating buying that one...  |
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on Oct 5, 2016 14:22:03 GMT
Posted: Oct 5, 2016 14:22:03 GMT
Right now there are 10 Yashica 500mm f8 mirror lenses on EBAY. Only one is an ML ($350 or Best Offer). There are three starting at under $200 (all BUY IT NOW).
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on Oct 5, 2016 23:10:59 GMT
Posted: Oct 5, 2016 23:10:59 GMT
Hi - I don't know why that ML never appeared in my Ebay search as I would have bought it for that price - of course, you never know what the winner's top price might have been. I don't know which part of the world you are living in but if you go to www.ebay.it and put in 131953919273 into the search box it will show you the ML set.
I am very annoyed to see Team-Foto listing a 'ML 500' (item: 401090311036) which is obviously just a Reflex 500 - I told them the last time they listed it in June that it was wrong - I even sent them a photo of a ML version as proof - but they've done it again! An easy way to check of course is that the ML serial number NEVER appears on the disc at the front of the lens - it is stamped near the base preceded by the letter 'A' as with nearly all ML lenses. Gosh, thanks for this info, Graham! I was actually contemplating buying that one... Glad to have been of help! I see that they have finally removed the ML reference...that's good to see as I've always thought of Team-Photo as a good seller and have bought C/Y gear from them in the past. |
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on Oct 5, 2016 23:34:50 GMT
Posted: Oct 5, 2016 23:34:50 GMT
This morning I took up the cause as well. In my spare time, I emailed them -- with a picture of an ML -- and pointed out that the "ML" is clearly marked on the box, on the manual, and on the lens. Plus the ML lacks a tripod socket.
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on Oct 6, 2016 0:22:47 GMT
Posted: Oct 6, 2016 0:22:47 GMT
So it was our combined efforts that did the trick, guys--because I also emailed them this morning...  ...and received the answer that they would change their description accordingly. So let's share and share alike the laurels of this exploit... Still I suspect that some sellers--though not necessarily Team Photo--do such things deliberately and on a regular basis, assuming there's a fair chance to get away with it (I've just seen too many such things recently to believe in coincidence). Once a buyer complains, they can always apologize and go, 'Oooops, sorry about that, but nobody's perfect after all' etc. etc., and point to having shown the right article in their photos, albeit with a tiny little error in the title of their offer. I find this most annoying. |
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on Oct 6, 2016 12:41:14 GMT
Posted: Oct 6, 2016 12:41:14 GMT
A couple of weeks ago, I bought a Yashica Samurai Z on EBAY from a seller in Japan. It's a wonderful half-frame camera and usually sells for $100-200, but since the seller mistakenly listed it as a "YESHICA" there was very little competition. He said the camera worked perfectly but when it arrived I discovered that the hidden, INTERNAL battery was dead. I sent off an email and was told that it had been working fine. When I went back to the EBAY pictures, one clearly shows the DEAD BATTERY icon on the camera's LCD screen. I would have bid on the camera anyway -- since I know how to replace the hidden battery -- but there is no way that it could have been tested before the sale. In the end, the seller refunded all of my money and I got to keep the camera. Not bad. A $100-200 camera for free -- well almost. I've got to buy a 2025 battery (about $3) and then spend about a half hour putting it in.
P.S. I assume that the lens was made by Tomioka and it is without a doubt the sharpest lens I have ever used (25-75mm zoom -- equivalent to a 35-105mm in full-frame 35mm)
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on Oct 14, 2016 15:09:54 GMT
Posted: Oct 14, 2016 15:09:54 GMT
On the second version of the NON-ML Reflex 500 (see above) -- which I listed as having the tripod socket removed -- is it possible that is was not completely removed and just changed from the original rotating tripod socket to a fixed, non-rotating tripod socket? I can't find any details or pictures on the web to answer this qustion for me.
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...and received the answer that they would change their description accordingly. So let's share and share alike the laurels of this exploit...