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on Sept 24, 2015 16:28:34 GMT
Last Edit: Sept 24, 2015 16:30:36 GMT by biggles3
I was going through a series of notes that I found yesterday which I had written when I was a guest of Yashica at Photokina 1982 and they got me thinking.
Conventional wisdom has blamed the demise of the Contax/Yashica brands on the exorbitant cost of developing the N-Digital and the 645, along with creating a legion of disgruntled owners of C/Y lenses because of the introduction of the new N-series mount. Like most, I had accepted this line but my notes have caused me to rethink this.
1982 saw a number of big moves by Contax and Yashica (not yet owned by Kyocera), principally the introduction of the RTSII and the FX-A; both cameras were to be the flagships for their respective brands. As we know, the RTSII proved successful but the FX-A became an evolutionary dead end for reasons that have never been fully explained. The fact that the FX-A was never released in Japan must have had a lot to do with its swift demise - perhaps there was a patent issue in Japan concerning the hybrid focusing system...does anyone out there know the reason? Whatever the truth, the loss of Yashica's home market for the camera was its death knell and it's been estimated that about 1000 were manufactured.
But what may have been the greatest opportunity for the Contax/Yashica brand was squandered because of objections by Zeiss in the face of Yashica's giving the green light for the system; who here remembers the Contax AF 137? This was in essence a 137MD with an extra series of motors and gears tucked into a grip on the front of the camera that powered the focusing mechanism of the Zeiss lens and synchronised it with the internal motor drive that advanced the film. Although I have seen references to the prototype being paired with a Zeiss AF 50 1.4, I saw a hybrid AF 50 1.7 Planar with a manual focusing ring and what looked like a couple of rocker switches on the body of the lens. This would have been the world's first fully automated AF camera system that linked an AF mechanism with an internal motor-driven film advance. It would have revolutionised 35mm SLR photography in 1982 and according to my notes, the existing range of C/Y lenses could still be used in manual mode.
Zeiss' objections, despite the appearance of their prototype AF 50mm Planar, was that the lightweight body needed to enable the motors to drive the AF mechanism would have required the extensive use of plastics and the tightness of the tolerances would have been insufficient to maintain the optical precision associated with their lenses. Yashica was of a different opinion - odd then that they did not pursue the option to produce their own version using hybrid ML lenses - or was that part of the reason for the sudden withdrawal of the FX-A? Perhaps Yashica had decided to explore the AF option running solo but by then, Kyocera was already knocking on the door and within the year had taken over Yashica and the Contax brands. With the vehement objections of Zeiss on the table, the entire opportunity was abandoned and the technology was instead developed by Minolta and the Contax AF became the Minolta Maxxum 7000 a couple of years later.
The only image I've been able to find of the Contax AF can be found in the superb reference book by Hans-Jurgen Kuc: On the Trail of the Contax Vol. II Photo11.9, p210. If I can find a photo that is not subject to copyright issues, I'll add it to this thread.
Ah, what might have been.... Of course, this is only my opinion but those notes got me thinking. By the time Zeiss came round to producing AF, the market was already saturated by the bigger brands and the relative minnow that was Kyocera could not generate sufficient demand to allow it to develop economies of scale that could generate profit. The opportunity may not have been lost with the development of the N-Digital; that may have been the final nail in the coffin but the real prize may have been thrown away 20 years earlier! Oh well, just a thought....
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on Sept 24, 2015 19:46:05 GMT
Last Edit: Sept 24, 2015 20:21:19 GMT by bp_reid
Here is some useful Background Reading for those of us who, like me, were unaware of the FX-A and AF 137. I would note that, if the article is correct, the location of the FX-A's in-focus indicator would have been very controversial at that time. We are very used to overlaid information on the focusing screen now but I can imagine it may have been an issue with acceptance of the model in the early 80s and hampered sales.
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on Sept 24, 2015 20:20:43 GMT
Posted: Sept 24, 2015 20:20:43 GMT
Hello barryreid,
That's a great find - thank you for that. I don't recall seeing those two other lenses but I'm delighted at the additional details carried in the text. I will have to try and find a copy of that US magazine.
For your interest, the photo below shows part of the focusing system in the form of segmented sections on the mirror - I daren't break that mirror as I'll never get a replacement!
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on Sept 24, 2015 20:34:51 GMT
Posted: Sept 24, 2015 20:34:51 GMT
The FX-A's mirror is very much like that on the Canon AL-1, as indeed is the enlarged grip.
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on Sept 24, 2015 21:58:13 GMT
Last Edit: Sept 24, 2015 22:01:25 GMT by docyashi: link correction
The FX-A's mirror is very much like that on the Canon AL-1, as indeed is the enlarged grip. "some of the engineers who developed the YASHICA FX-A is moved to Canon EOS" from this Japanese Yashica/Kyocera site www.hi-ho.ne.jp/sbko-hq/KyoceraAF/ (use G translate) Contax 137 AF and FX-A was revolutionar. it's a shame that Kyocera did not bring advance the development, preferring to continue with the MF, and arrived late with the AF. biggles3, can you take a shot in the viewfinder of FX-A? I'm curious to see how appear the segments. thanks
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on Sept 25, 2015 0:26:22 GMT
Posted: Sept 25, 2015 0:26:22 GMT
Hi docyashi,
When you look through the viewfinder, the segments printed on the mirror do not appear at all; the only things you see are 3 sets of marks - the two outer light red to show lack of focus either short or long, and the centre lights green to show correct focus. You can see the effect in the image below.
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on Sept 25, 2015 8:53:58 GMT
Last Edit: Sept 25, 2015 9:15:59 GMT by docyashi
Fantastic! many tanks, i hope someday to add a FX-A in my collection
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on Mar 2, 2021 11:34:14 GMT
Posted: Mar 2, 2021 11:34:14 GMT
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on Mar 2, 2021 14:20:20 GMT
Posted: Mar 2, 2021 14:20:20 GMT
Wow! Thank you for that link! That takes me straight back to Photokina in 1982. Deep respect for the guy that has managed to get hold of that camera and lens. However, there were two more AF Zeiss lenses shown - a Distagon 35mm f2.8 and Sonnar 135mm f2.8; I wonder if he has them too? I don't recall seeing them but I know Yashica in Hamburg referred to them at a press briefing. I know the NASA Contax 137 was expensive to buy when it was eventually sold but that AF version would probably be the most expensive Contax 35mm camera ever if it came to the market. For once, the word unique is not hyperbole. And what I find amazing is that both camera and lens are still working after nearly 40 years, given that it was an unfinished prototype; and by the look of the camera, it gets a lot of use.
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on Mar 6, 2021 7:55:45 GMT
Posted: Mar 6, 2021 7:55:45 GMT
I thought often about that Photokina '82 Annoncement...and Contax/Yashica *could* have been the Autofocus Forerunner, *if* they've had decided to make this into Production, before Minolta (1985) and Canon/Nikon, for example. Rumor was, Zeiss wasn't happy with the build Quality from these 3 Prototype Lenses, and they also didn't wanted to go the AF Route..for whatever Reason.
The 2nd bad Decision was the 1987 introduced Yashica AF 200/230 Series, with a few Lenses...whileas being mechanical, electronical not much being different from the Minolta AF System (Dynax 7000), it never made a huge Success, therefore "Splash" into the Camera World...and it was 2 years after Minolta..too little, too late.
The 3rd bad Decision was with the Worlds #1 36x24 "Fullframe" DSLR, the mighty Contax-N digital, which had had some Flaws, the major Ones have been: 1) a technical flawed 6 MP Philips Sensor, Pentax therefore abandoned there (also the same 6 MP Philips Sensor) digital Fullframe SLR Project. 2) High Noise >64 ISO 3) bugged Firmware, and Updates too late 4) Last but not least, the 2 Years Timespan between the Announcement into 2000, and real Product into 2002 and especially 5) the extraordinary high Price.
Then Canon came along the Corner with their EOS 1Ds, and the Rest was sadly History... Kyocera shut down the Brand CONTAX into April 2005. Kyocera bought Yashica into 1983, but CONTAX then after that Timeframe also released some nice Contax SLRs, made by Kyocera, not Yashica. Into the End, it doesn't matter, if it was being made by Yashica or Kyocera. But that giant ceramic Firm brought Expertise into this field, think about the ceramic Film pressure Plate, and much other Stuff.
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on Mar 6, 2021 9:16:52 GMT
Last Edit: Mar 6, 2021 9:22:45 GMT by lenslover
I'd like to add, the funny thing hereby so, the Canon AL-1 does have exactly the same "Focus Aid" Mechanism, as the Yashica FX-A, and guess what, both are from 1982...but only the Canon SLR made it to Production Line, neither the Yashica FX-A (into Mass Production, only a few have been made), and sadly not the Contax 137 with Autofocus, back into the Day...and the Minolta X600 does have an equal Focus Aid Mechanism, too. The Body Design is exactly the same here, as the later, cheapskate X300 "Barebone" Model from Minolta, but it works also quite well. I prefer the Film Transport Lever and Design from the X700, like that SLR much, but even way more, the XD/XD7/XD11 Minolta.
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on May 19, 2021 19:29:28 GMT
Posted: May 19, 2021 19:29:28 GMT
I had posted on this very topic a few days ago ("FX-A and Contax 137AF: What could have been"). I should read all the historical comments before creating a new thread for something that has already been covered. I’m still new here, and apologize for making newbie mistakes. I’d like to thank everyone for making me feel so welcome.
At any rate, I think biggles3's comments are spot-on in every respect.
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on May 26, 2021 17:54:40 GMT
Last Edit: May 26, 2021 17:55:41 GMT by xkaes
The Minolta X-600 (not to be confused with the Minolta 600-X camera that used 126 film) made it to market in 1983 -- until 1985, of course -- but it was never sold in Japan!!! Most people think the biggest change is that the X-600 lacks the programmed exposure mode of the X-700. It does, and this was a big change, and why Minolta did it is quite confusing. Programmed exposure mode is perfect for people who don't like to think while taking a picture -- this was the crowd that was the target of the X-600. So Minolta removed one convenience feature from the X-700, added another, and came up with the X-600. The feature that Minolta added on the X-600 is focus confirmation. The focus-confirmation feature was designed to be used with special lenses that have a focus-confirmation tab -- only on selected Minolta MD lenses -- but many report that the focusing confirmation system works just fine with any MD, MC and even pre-MC lenses. There are actually two "confirmation" approaches in the X-600, one for bright light and one for lower light levels. The tab in the lens merely tells the confirmation system which approach to use, but the default works fine in most situations. The viewfinder is very similar to the X-700 with the shutter speed scale on the right side of the viewfinder with red LEDs. There is no aperture readout window. The bottom of the screen provides two red arrows in opposite direction, and a large green dot in between that lights up when the focus is confirmed. One or the other of the arrows light up when the lens is not focused indicating the direction the lens focusing ring should be turned to bring the subject into focus (assuming you are using a Minolta lens). An LED system very similar to this was first used in the Minolta 16 QT -- to set the exposure. The mirror on the X-600 has an interesting grid pattern etched into it that may help with focus confirmation. The focusing screen is also different and lacks the split-image focusing aide. It's not needed, of course, since the camera has a different way of determining correct focus -- but doesn't help when you want to focus manually. Anyway, the MAXXUM of 1985 made the X-600 obsolete, but some still like the X-600. When they show up on EBAY -- there's one there now -- they usually sell for around $200, oddly enough, usually from JAPAN!!! www.subclub.org/minman/x600.htm
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