Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Feb 3, 2023 14:24:22 GMT
Posted: Feb 3, 2023 14:24:22 GMT
Here's a new one on me:
Has a 51mm thread. That's a new one on me too!!!
Is there a list of Yashica (Contax?) enlarging lenses?
I know we have discussed this before.
|
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,039 (562 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Feb 3, 2023 18:38:04 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 3, 2023 18:38:52 GMT by biggles3
Here's a new one on me:
Has a 51mm thread. That's a new one on me too!!!
Is there a list of Yashica (Contax?) enlarging lenses?
I know we have discussed this before.
I wouldn't lose sleep over the unusual 51mm threaded mount; it's simply an adapter ring that's been added to the standard mount. I think you are right in saying this has been addressed before - perhaps we should consider adding the category to the lens list at the beginning of this section. What I'm not entirely sure is whether we've identified all of the types but I see no reason why we could not make a start. Logically, we should look at Tominon and Yashica lenses, where the former were manufactured after being taken over by Yashica.
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Feb 4, 2023 2:08:36 GMT
Posted: Feb 4, 2023 2:08:36 GMT
It might be simpler to create a new list/spreadsheet/etc., that covers anything that falls into something as an auxiliary and/or 'other' category. Enlarger lenses in multiple frame sizes and mounts are a logical starting point, along with with any Tominon branded lenses produced after the 1968 merger. If the idea is to really go in depth, I think that could include everything from the Polaroid era when it applies to Yashica or Tomioka supplied or manufactured products or parts (MP-4 lenses, etc.), or even the cameras released in the EurAsian market as the Polaroid 160 (late 1962-65), the Polaroid Pathfinder 120 (1961-65), and the Polaroid 180 (1965-69). [ from: The Land List ] The reason I'd suggest a separate list is the differences in tabular data that might be needed. The column descriptors may need to grow beyond those useful for camera-based lenses. BTW: The linked enlarger lens is sold, and I know the buyer! :)
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Feb 4, 2023 15:03:13 GMT
Posted: Feb 4, 2023 15:03:13 GMT
Yes, my first thought was that it was a 39mm (?) to 51mm adapter ring. I've seen lots of unusual enlarging lens rear thread -- after all, I have a Fujinon-EX 150mm -- but I don't recall a 51mm. As to a list, I'm willing to help. I'm eye-balling two Tominon enlarging lenses right now -- a 75mm and a 105mm. And apprently, some of the Tominons ended up under other labels/brands -- Yahsica, Hoya,
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Feb 4, 2023 16:34:35 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 4, 2023 17:04:54 GMT by xkaes
Here's what I have in EXCEL format as to Tomioka enlarging and process/bellows lenses. There is some missing info, and some of these lenses might have shown up under additional labels. There might have been other focal lengths as well.
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Feb 6, 2023 2:44:41 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 6, 2023 2:46:06 GMT by lumiworx
I don't have as deep an understanding into the various lenses that may fall into categories like enlarging or process types as I do for taking lenses on camera, but I can certainly assist with web searches and organizing data and files wherever it's needed.
I'm aware of Osawa's associations with Mamiya - and the early agreements on Tomioka producing the TL/DTL lenses - so I know there's a lot of history and partnerships between them and Yashica's manufacturing facilities. That's the extent of what I know and have read. Nothing is "a leap too far" when it comes to what did - or may - have happened after the 1968 acquisition and merger, but I don't doubt about Tomioka, Yashica, and the Land Company participation with various Polaroid products, as they were widely publicised, even going back to the late 50's. The only question might be on how strict the affiliations might need to be - or by what timeline - a lens (or anything else) becomes a candidate for the list when it comes to Polaroid, and specifically what particular items would fit into it.
I'd be out of my depth of knowledge for any other branding or even model numbers or focal lengths if they're outside these company pairings, so hopefully there's some information to use as guidance.
I've found a way to share a spreadsheet online for editing by multiple users, but it isn't protected by permissions at a user level and can be edited just by knowing the link. I'll be happy to share it with anyone privately, so please send me a message if you want to explore that kind of workflow as a group.
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Feb 6, 2023 14:01:58 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 6, 2023 14:29:12 GMT by xkaes
Most of the "Polaroid" lenses that are labeled have the manufacturer's name on it -- the higher quality ones being "Rodenstock", typically "Eurygon", and Tomioka or Tominon.
All the OSAWA enlarging lenses that I have seen are marked "OSAWA TOMINON EL". The Tominon "process/macro" lenses are only marked TOMINON -- as far as I know.
But the enlarging lens marked YASHICA 40mm was sold under several labels -- and you can tell it's the same lens with a visual inspection.
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Feb 8, 2023 16:55:31 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 8, 2023 19:17:40 GMT by xkaes
I just ran across the Tominon 114mm f4.5 & 180mm f5.6 copy/process (?) lenses that were used on some Polaroid cameras. Not included on my earlier list and should be. Not enlarging lenses, but might not be a copy/process lens either. My guess is that it has a 40mm lens mount, but who knows.
There are, more likely than not, other Tominon lenses out there that can be used by the common shutterbug -- like Tominon E36 lenses (whatever they are!).
Here's the updated list -- in ZIP format to avoid download security problems.
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Feb 11, 2023 7:21:26 GMT
Posted: Feb 11, 2023 7:21:26 GMT
I just received the Yashica lens, and it definitely has no focus abilities whatsoever, so it can only be a bellows or pre-distance mounted process lens. I can't say with absolute certainty that it was adapted to 51mm via an extra screw-mount collar just yet, because if that's what it is, it's been locked onto the lens by force or glued into place as a semi-permanent assembly. It might take some time to separate the pieces, and likely needs different tools and/or hardware to get it apart, than what I currently have on hand. I have another surprise on the way, but I'm unsure of what it actually is at this point, so bare with me a few more days until I have it in hand and can take some photos. Think in terms of a CGCM or Zeiss M35 body behind it (i.e., Yashica FR w/o shutter) - but in this case, it's attached to a Yashica TR7000. And xkaes .. I'll send you a message and a link to your original spreadsheet that's editable online. That way you won't have to keep posting incremental updates, and it can be exported as a local copy.
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Feb 12, 2023 0:25:53 GMT
Posted: Feb 12, 2023 0:25:53 GMT
I have two Tomioka process/copy lenses, and they don't look anything like that lens. It looks much more like the Yashica 40mm enlarging lens -- but the 40mm might not have been made by Tomioka. I suspect that the 50mm f2.8 Yashica showed up under other names -- just like the Yashica 40mm. Hoya and Osawa both sold 50mm f2.8 enlarging lenses. MAYBE they are the same as the YASHICA?!?!?
Would Hoya sell a Tomioka lens? Would Tomioka sell a Hoya lens?
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Feb 12, 2023 3:26:47 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 12, 2023 4:07:56 GMT by lumiworx
The mystery lens on the TR7000 'lab camera' has been identified now that it's here. Given the knurled edge seen in the listing photos, I thought it might be another Yashica branded enlarging lens like the 50mm that started this thread. The barrel itself appeared to have a sleeve covering any identifying marks, but it turned out to be electrical tape that was wrapped around it to keep the aperture locked at f/8. Once removed, it showed a Rodenstock Rodagon 50mm f/2.8 enlarging lens. My buy-it-now price was $18 USD + $9 shipping, so I'm not really disappointed. The same lens - raw, with no caps - sold a few weeks ago for $50 and not nearly in the great condition this was in. The seller listed this as "Open Box", but that was plain nonsense. The white-ish residue on the base plate near the battery box and the unmistakable smell of fried circuits said otherwise. It is in fact a Yashica TR7000 behind that massive attachment plate, which is unceremoniously screwed directly to the camera's lens mounting ring. Unfortunately that means no one fashioned a compound adapter to fit an L39 threaded lens to a C/Y mount. The lens easily unscrews from the plate and is in excellent working shape too, so at least I have another lens to experiment with. The vertical shutter is still intact, as is the mirror and mirror box, and looking through the viewfinder it gives you a clearly focused target at about 10-11 inches. I still have no idea where this was used, or for what purpose.
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Feb 12, 2023 4:05:34 GMT
Posted: Feb 12, 2023 4:05:34 GMT
... I suspect that the 50mm f2.8 Yashica showed up under other names -- just like the Yashica 40mm. Hoya and Osawa both sold 50mm f2.8 enlarging lenses. MAYBE they are the same as the YASHICA?!?!? Would Hoya sell a Tomioka lens? Would Tomioka sell a Hoya lens? A very good friend of mine has had an ongoing and deep business relationship with a major Japanese manufacturer since the early 80's as their sole US distributor. He's told me there are 3 takeaways that stand above all others. 1. Corporate pride and worker pride should be equal and paramount. 2. They highly favor doing business with another Japanese company - IF - they have to do it at all. 3. Never underestimate their determination to fix pricing whenever they can. [The most recent fiasco that comes to mind, was Mitsubishi and auto parts in 2022.] The pride stance can be more of a negative, as they don't seem to want to lose their standing by reselling someone else's products under their own name, when they're known for selling the very same product type. Regardless of price or quality, there may be more shame in selling something good that they didn't entirely make themselves. I think they would be very unlikely to ever resell ANY makers lenses under the Yashica brand, and I'd think that would be even less likely under Tomioka/Tominon labeling.
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Feb 12, 2023 14:04:55 GMT
Posted: Feb 12, 2023 14:04:55 GMT
So basically, the firms don't have a problem with their products showing up under another brand names, but they would be very reluctant to put their name on someone else's product. That explains why Tomioka lenses are often seen with labels such as "OSAWA TOMINON".
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 770 (71 liked)
Join date: August 2016
Status:
|
|
on Feb 12, 2023 19:42:06 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 12, 2023 19:45:55 GMT by xkaes
|
|
Group: Administrator
Post: 1,370 (301 liked)
Join date: February 2017
Status: Failed treatment for L.B.A. and G.A.S,
|
|
on Feb 13, 2023 3:23:09 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 13, 2023 3:27:27 GMT by lumiworx
So basically, the firms don't have a problem with their products showing up under another brand names, but they would be very reluctant to put their name on someone else's product. That explains why Tomioka lenses are often seen with labels such as "OSAWA TOMINON". Yes, I'd say that's reasonable, since obfuscation is a marketing ploy too. It might be good to clarify one aspect of what I'd written earlier, as there are exceptions that seem to contradict it. It's happened before and highly likely that Yashica would contract another maker to manufacture Yashica's designs to their specifications without any issues, as-labeled under the Yashica brand - but they'd be unlikely to broadcast it or boast about it willingly. I think it would not be likely that they would voluntarily seek out an existing (or prototyped by others) lens and basically become a distributor and brand it as a Yashica product. Control and impetus and design origin are the prideful part of the chain. Obvious exceptions are things like opera glasses and binoculars, and tripods, meters, or other accessories - but those aren't core photographic items where every competitor did the same kind of outsourcing anyway. Some exceptions that impact that thought line are the 'c' lenses in the ML series, the YUS line, and I'm beginning to wonder about the DSB lenses too. When saying 'voluntarily', that probably includes whatever pushback their might have been from Zeiss to fulfill the AF lenses once they finally jumped on board with the idea to enter that market, i.e., pulling in Sigma for the N-Mount line and consequently whatever they ended up adding into Yashica' own AF lenses after their entire AF SLR line came out. I also have to think there was a massive quantity of lenses required to cover every iron they had in the fire at the time, and they had to swallow some of that pride to get store shelves filled. It might get too busy for Tomioka/Yashica to be responsible for every single lens, and keep up with Zeiss fulfilment at the same time. Sometimes you have to do what's needed to pay the bills and meet your contractual obligations. I personally don't think Kyocera was as invested in the whole camera culture side of the business during the end years either, so expediency and bottom line may have begun to quash some of the pride out of the equation on Yashica's downhill slope.
|
|