Group: Member
Post: 26 (6 liked)
Join date: January 2022
Status: old digital compact enthusiast, owns several kyoceras
|
|
on Apr 3, 2022 12:05:46 GMT
Last Edit: Apr 3, 2022 14:39:10 GMT by sofi
Kyocera/Yashica Finecam S3
(My beat up copy of the Finecam S3. Image taken with a Kyocera Finecam S5R.)
General information
Today I'm writing a review on the Kyocera Finecam S3, the second of Kyocera's Finecam line, and I believe the first camera in history to use the SD/MMC format. Released in 2001, it was also notable for its pocketable size (87 x 55 x 30 mm) and remains one of the smallest cameras to have a 1/1.8" sensor. I have owned at least three copies of this camera throughout my life, but I've only come to be acquainted with it in the past year. The body is made out of a robust metal with some plastic detailing especially on the battery and SD card slot doors. In Japan, in addition to silver, the camera also came out in metallic pink and metallic blue colours. The camera sports a 2x zoom with a 38-76 mm f/2.8-3.5 (35mm equiv.) range.
Exposure
In its default settings, the camera is not anything too special, but it has many manual settings that allow the user to have more control. It is in those kinds of settings that the camera really begins to shine. Notably, the camera features an aperture priority mode with a selection of two settings, allowing you to stop down to f/6.2-7.6 (W-T). The camera also has three ISO settings: Standard (ISO 100), x2 (ISO 200), x4 (ISO 400). There does not appear to be auto ISO. The camera allows preset long exposure speeds (2, 4 and 8 sec) and otherwise automatically selects a speed between 1 sec and 1/2000 sec. What is interesting about the shutter speed on auto, however, is it appears to have an unusually high number of steps. In my trial of 459 shots, it selected 66 different settings. I suspect that the camera does 0.1 EV steps for exposure, rather than the usual 0.5 EV (Finecam S5R and Contax i4R). The only other Finecam I've seen do this is the L30, which seems to use 0.125 EV although I have not looked deeply into this yet.
There seems to be a tendency for the meter to underexpose, although it retains shadows a lot better than highlights so this may be on purpose. Additionally, the camera seems to automatically stop down if the scene is too bright, even on the fixed aperture setting.
Zone focusing and timer modes
The camera only has two focus modes: AF (including a 10cm macro and infinity setting) and MF. I found I preferred using the camera in manual focus mode, as it has a very handy seven-step zone focusing system ranging from 90cm to infinity. The focus setting is even retained between power cycles, meaning you can set the focus and not have to re-adjust it every time you turn the camera on. Kyocera, however, has neglected to mention what these zones are calibrated to. Their other MF digital cameras have markers for 1 m, 3 m, 5 m, and infinity but it's unclear if the scale is the same here. (I will probably test this some time.)
There is no burst mode, but there are the standard 2 s and 10 s timer modes.
TIFF mode and file sizes
One interesting oddity is the presence of a TIFF-RGB mode, hidden under the file size settings. Each TIFF is a 24-bit image of precisely 9.06 MB. It appears there is absolutely no sharpening or saturation applied. Producing a TIFF is incredibly time-consuming for the camera and will leave your camera unusable for nearly two minutes. With its 3.3MP images on the Fine setting alone, I've been able to produce decent A4-size prints, so the TIFF mode has mostly seemed unnecessary to me. There is also a 1024 x 768 'Normal' mode. DiscretenessThe camera makes a beep whenever it turns on. This cannot be disabled. This beep is followed by a rather noisy lens motor, which sounds when focusing (including focus breathing when zooming) as well as when switching from Review to Shooting mode. The LCD can be turned off, but the setting is not persistent. Therefore, the camera may not be suitable for the utmost silent settings. CharacterAt ISO 400, the images begin to exhibit a canvas-like diagonal texture. This texture is less apparent in lower ISO settings and TIFF mode. However, I find this character very appealing and in fact exclusively shoot at ISO 400. The colours are vivid with a smooth fall off into black in the shadows. The first thing that comes to mind is Provia 400. When focusing on close subjects there is some pleasant background blur. The lens is quite sharp. (Spot metering, aperture wide open, ISO 400 on all photos, straight out of camera. All on Fine mode, except the last photo which is on Super Fine. All photos are my own work.)
I have not tested the BW or Sepia modes.
VideoThe camera also sports a rudimentary 320x240@15fps video mode, recording 15 seconds of AVI video. There is no audio. Interestingly, the video mode retains manual focus settings. BatteryThe camera charges using a DC plug with an AC adapter provided by Kyocera, the AC-70L. Closer inspection shows that this is a standard EIAJ-02 plug (4.0 * 1.7 mm, 5V). I decided to order a USB-to-5V DC adapter to see if I could charge this camera with it. Not only did it successfully charge the camera, but I also discovered that the camera could be continuously powered off USB. With a mobile power bank, I essentially had unlimited battery power. Please do this only at your own risk, but this may be a possible solution to the issues that many of the ageing batteries that this camera uses face. The battery is compatible with every camera in the Kyocera Finecam S line, any rebadges, as well as, apparently, a number of Sharp portable mini-disc players. There are a few model numbers for the battery from Kyocera, but it is unclear to me what the difference is between them.
Rebadges There is one known rebadge of this camera: the Konica Revio KD-300Z. This camera seems to be considerably rarer. I expect to be receiving one in the coming weeks, so I will make some notes about it when it arrives.
Overall impression Small, durable, powerful and incredibly capable camera with a unique character. Even though it is one of the earliest, it is nevertheless my favourite of Kyocera's line-up so far. The only drawbacks are how slow it can be to turn on, how loud the lens motor can be, how the screen can't be fully disabled, and how image review can't be shut off. I also feel that it has a steep learning curve, which may dissuade people from exploring it. However, I have found that it is incredibly rewarding once given the chance.
|
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,033 (561 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Apr 3, 2022 13:15:18 GMT
Posted: Apr 3, 2022 13:15:18 GMT
Hi sofiThank you so much for the detailed information on your Finecam S3 and your photos and observations. Also the good piccie of the camera taken with your S5R. It certainly appears that the old Finecam series still has something to offer for those interested in retro digital cameras. You don't mention the battery type that you have in the camera; which one is it? Your idea about using a mobile power bank is very interesting.
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 26 (6 liked)
Join date: January 2022
Status: old digital compact enthusiast, owns several kyoceras
|
|
on Apr 3, 2022 14:38:29 GMT
Posted: Apr 3, 2022 14:38:29 GMT
Hello,
Happy to share! I forgot to mention - the battery is the Kyocera BP-1000s, but it should also accept the Kyocera BP-800s and Kyocera BP-900s. Other model numbers are Konica DR-LB1, Sharp AD-T51BT, Sharp AD-S31BT, Sharp AD-S30BT, and Toshiba PDR-BT9. Looking at it over, I'm assuming the 800 and 900 refer to the mAh rating, but I don't think I have a copy of those batteries to check.
The mobile power bank also works with the Kyocera Finecam S5R and the Contax i4R (when attached to the dock) from my experience so far. I haven't been able to get it to work with the SL400R, but my copy has been behaving very strangely in general.
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 285 (39 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status:
|
|
on Apr 3, 2022 20:43:34 GMT
Posted: Apr 3, 2022 20:43:34 GMT
Hi Sofi .... it was good to read your excellent review of the S3. It brought back memories of its 2 year younger sibling ..... the S3L which I really liked. In fact it was a hard choice as to which of the two C/Y digital cameras, that I owned at the time, to take with me as the everyday carry. The Kyocera S3L or the Contax SL300RT .... I ended up frequently carrying both. With the same standard format as the S3 of 2048 x 1536 from either of the two above I owned, and a 3x zoom, they had many excellent features and were a joy to use. In fact, I still have the Contax SL300RT and occasionally use it as a bit of a novelty and for nostalgia's sake. I thought it would be fun to share just one photo from the year 2003, not actually taken by me, but taken with my S3L camera. When I was a lecturer at a Further Education College, I stupidly left my S3L on my desk in the lecture room. A day later I discovered the shot below and was possibly my first encounter of a modern "Selfie", albeit not my selfie! I liked the self-portrait so much, I kept it rather than deleting it. I think it shows just what the camera was capable of .... even when the student involved obviously had very little detailed knowledge of the cameras operation and did not have the advantage of a lens on the LCD side of the device (as in modern Smartphones) ... the boy did well! First at 50% of original and a 100% extract Hope I haven't scared anyone
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 26 (6 liked)
Join date: January 2022
Status: old digital compact enthusiast, owns several kyoceras
|
|
on Apr 5, 2022 5:29:23 GMT
Posted: Apr 5, 2022 5:29:23 GMT
Bob, thanks for the anecdote and pictures! It's a bit scary (perhaps that was the intention of the photographer ) but nevertheless it's also impressive how detailed that shot is! The out-of-focus areas look really nice too. It's funny though; when other people use my S3 they usually struggle a bit but that's probably because of my settings…
I've never tried the S3L. It seems like it's the 3MP version of the S5? For whatever reason, the S3X, S3L and S3R are so much more rare than the S3 and their higher-megapixel siblings. They all seem a bit more advanced than the S3, and from what I've seen, the images also feel different—a lot smoother and not as textured. But I'd like to mess around with them some time and find out for myself.
Anyway, I still carry two—or sometimes more—digicams these days whenever I go out! I prefer these to my phone, and they're nice and small.
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 26 (6 liked)
Join date: January 2022
Status: old digital compact enthusiast, owns several kyoceras
|
|
on Apr 12, 2022 19:52:45 GMT
Posted: Apr 12, 2022 19:52:45 GMT
My copy of the Konica Revio KD-300Z arrived today. Unfortunately the screen was broken, but it was still able to take photos. From the photos I did take, the camera appears to produce identical images as the Finecam S3, including with the ISO 400 canvas texture. The body is also very similar, although it's notably made out of plastic instead of metal. It seems to be the same plastic that's used for the Finecam S3's battery door. It lacks the distinct grip that the Finecam S3 has, presenting a more minimal appearance. I found that this caused it to be a little less nice to handle.
Interestingly, on the bottom, the Kyocera says 'Assembled in China, Made in Japan' where as the Konica simply says 'Japan'.
Anyway, with this I can confirm that Kyocera rebadges exist, although they seem to be slightly lower quality than the original Kyoceras. Some people who have tried the Toshiba PDR-3310 have told me that that camera is also made out of plastic, unlike the Finecam S3x's steel body.
(Will update this post with photos soon!)
|
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,033 (561 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Apr 13, 2022 9:33:14 GMT
Posted: Apr 13, 2022 9:33:14 GMT
Hello sofiThank you for the update on the Konica and Toshiba clones; it's very interesting to note that they decided to use thermoplastics instead of metal. It's nice to see Kyocera leading in terms of quality...
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 26 (6 liked)
Join date: January 2022
Status: old digital compact enthusiast, owns several kyoceras
|
|
on Apr 24, 2022 15:04:35 GMT
Posted: Apr 24, 2022 15:04:35 GMT
Finally back with some comparison photos.
|
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,033 (561 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Apr 24, 2022 16:15:09 GMT
Posted: Apr 24, 2022 16:15:09 GMT
Hi sofiThank you so much for the comparative pictures. Very interesting - you are quite right in saying that these are, essentially, the same camera. So, it seems that it was simply a change of face-plate and a slightly different colour palette from the original manufacturer and we have both a Kyocera and a Konica digital camera. That begs the question: who actually produced them in early 2001? Was it Kyocera, Konica Minolta or a 3rd party??? Fascinating...
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 26 (6 liked)
Join date: January 2022
Status: old digital compact enthusiast, owns several kyoceras
|
|
on Apr 25, 2022 8:38:26 GMT
Posted: Apr 25, 2022 8:38:26 GMT
Hello biggles3,
It seems that is the case indeed, although the Kyocera uses metal for some parts of the body whereas Konica uses plastic. I'm led to believe that Kyocera was actually the one behind them, since all the cameras in the S series seem to be based on this design and use the same battery, whereas Konica's cameras generally settled into a sliding door design before the latter merged with Minolta.
Personally, I think the Konica looks a bit more 'stylish' (or perhaps trendy) with its dots and minimalist straight lines, although I still prefer the S3 both in looks and handling. Also, that iridescent yellow hand grip is unforgettable.
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 26 (6 liked)
Join date: January 2022
Status: old digital compact enthusiast, owns several kyoceras
|
|
on Apr 26, 2022 16:32:34 GMT
Last Edit: Apr 27, 2022 5:43:41 GMT by sofi
Another update. A broken (I was expecting it to be broken) blue Finecam S3 arrived today along with a strap and what appears to be the official Kyocera case.
Coloured Finecam S3
The colour doesn't photograph very well, but its blueness is apparent in person, especially compared to the default silver. The screws on it are still silver, creating this blue-silver contrast look. It looks very much like some early-2000s electronics to me, pretty close to 'Vapor Blue'. Interestingly, the body for the coloured models seem to be made out of plastic rather than metal. Otherwise, everything else appears to be the same.
I actually got two S3s in this bundle, but neither of them worked. The blue one wouldn't zoom out all the way and would display 'Error-C2' or 'Error-C4' if I tried. The other Finecam S3 I got just simply wouldn't extend the lens, also displaying 'Error-C2'. I'm assuming this is a lens error code. Both of these cameras were otherwise in pristine cosmetic condition. One of them came with a completely dead battery that I was unable to revive no matter how I tried to charge it.
(The pictured silver S3 is my functioning albeit beat up copy I take with me every day.)
Kyocera CC-84(BE) Case and strap
The case is a 'beige' colour and made out of some kind of fabric—I believe it's nylon. The material has a bit of a sheen to it at some angles. The case closes with velcro and the interior seems to be cloth. There are two ventilation holes at the bottom, so it's not a completely sealed case. I found a tag inside that read 'Kyocera CC-84(BE)'. Googling this, I found out that there was also a CC-84(DG), which is a 'dark silver' colour. These two products are only referenced on an out-of-stock Amazon.co.jp listing with a release date of 27 June, 2001. There is an incredibly low resolution image of the two cases.
There's a neat little button fastener for the strap on the case. The inside of the button reads KANE-M, which is a Japanese fastener company.
The Amazon listing also seems to mention there's a strap that comes with it. My copy came with this neck strap below, which is different from the wrist strap that came with all the Finecam S3's I've ever encountered so far. However, this neck strap resembles ones I've gotten with my Finecam SL400R and Contax TVS. Even though there's no branding on it, I'm assuming it's the strap that came with this case.
Anyway, I'm quite happy with this accessory, since it was a little cumbersome otherwise to use the Finecam S3. I usually would put it in a Canon camera case and keep it in my pocket. It feels more secure around my neck. This did leave me to wonder what other accessories were out there for Kyocera's cameras. Searching adjacent 'CC' numbers turned up all sorts of results; CC-85, for example, seemed to be a case for the Yashica Zoommate 110W.
|
|
Group: Moderator
Post: 2,033 (561 liked)
Join date: April 2014
Status: Long, long time Contax and Yashica user; glad to be here and hope to contribute.
|
|
on Apr 27, 2022 11:53:14 GMT
Posted: Apr 27, 2022 11:53:14 GMT
Thank you again sofi for your latest information and photos. Will you try for the remaining S3 colour: pink? I saw it on the amazing Yashica chart produced by bobblehat There is a wide variety of Kyocera camera cases. Just looking at my desk top I can see a very nice CC-86 which houses the Yashica T-Zoom and a remote controller; a CC-80 inside which is a Zoomate 70Z and another housing a EZ Zoom; a CC-74 for the Zoomate 105SE; a CC-68 housing a Zoomate 115 GRF and remote switch plus another for the Zoomate 140SE and standard 115; I've also found a CC-75, boxed, but with no indication as to which camera(s) it fits. It also gets complicated when it comes to cases marked as Yashica as there are a few that carry a Kyocera reference, such as the CC-47, but most Kyocera-era Yashica cases do not feature a CC number.
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 26 (6 liked)
Join date: January 2022
Status: old digital compact enthusiast, owns several kyoceras
|
|
on May 11, 2022 18:53:16 GMT
Posted: May 11, 2022 18:53:16 GMT
Kyocera Finecam S3x Comparison
Maybe this should be an all Finecam S series thread now, but today I received my Finecam S3x. I didn't plan on getting one, but it came with an order of a Finecam SL300R and Contax SL300RT. I decided to charge it and see if I could get it fired up anyway.
Body comparisons
As you can see, the Finecam S3x appears to be an intermediary between the S3 and S5R. It is virtually identical in size to the later S5R (which is larger than the S3), but it retains many of the same styling details of the S3: the teardrop detail on the top, the glossy teardrop grip in the front, the three-dot grip in the back, the subtle bump in the back, the logo placements both on the front and back, the button layout (except the Display button has been moved to allow right-hand operation), the three-mode wheel. Like the S3, the S3x also lacks both a speaker and mic. What it shares in common with the S5R is the further displaced tunnelfinder and the pop-up flash. The metal also seems to be closer to the makeup of the S5R's metal rather than the S3's. Looking at this, it immediately became clear to me what were things I didn't like so much about the S5R's design and what things I liked about the S3 instead. The S5R almost feels too boxy to me, so it was nice to see that the S3x had more of the roundedness that the S3 had. Holding the S3x in my hands, I was surprised that I liked it as much as I did. The slight increase in size actually made it nicer to hold.
Visually, I preferred it over the S5R, but I liked that the lines of the S3 were a bit less symmetrical in the front.
As you can see in this last photo, a 'DIGITAL' port was added to the S3x, which was later replaced with a standard micro-USB port in the S5r. Apparently the 'DIGITAL' port was for a proprietary USB cable, the 'PC-4U'. I cannot find such a cable. There is also a 4.0mm x 1.7mm 5V DC port, standard for Kyocera digis, which is used for charging and powering the camera.
Optical differences
The biggest difference between the S3x and the S3 is the inclusion of a longer zoom lens. In fact, I heard that the x refers to 'extended', meaning the zoom range has been extended, but I have no real source for this. This lens has a range of 3x (35-105 mm) instead of the Finecam S3's 2x (38-76 mm) and now has a close focus range of 0.6 m instead of 0.9 m like the S3. The S3x has the same seven-zone manual focus that all other Finecams have. I could not find the manual for this model or the nearly identical Finecam S4 model, but I managed to find one for the Toshiba PDR-3310, which is a rebadge of this camera. This manual did not include MF distances. In the end, I assumed the on-screen scale followed the 0.6-1-3-5-∞ scale that all later Kyoceras followed.
The S3x has two aperture settings, but unlike the S3, it now stops down to f/9.6 instead of f/6.2.
Exposure The S3x retains the unusual 0.1EV metering precision. Like the S3, it has 3 ISO settings, but instead of 100-200-400, they are 120-240-480. I thought this was a mistake at first, but then I looked through my files and found a pair of images taken at the same time metered at 10.4EV, one by the S3 and one by the S3x. The two images had different shutter speeds which compensate for the ~1/3 stop difference.
As other Finecams do, the camera stops down automatically in bright settings, even at Aperture Priority.
Images
The unique contrasty, saturated character of the S3 is missing in the S3x. Also missing are the distinctive canvas texture at high ISO, the abrupt cyan cast in shadows, and overall preference for cool tones. Shown here at ISO 480, the character reminds me a bit of the Contax TVS and the Finecam S5R more than anything. Finecam S3 comparison photos follow each image.
Kyocera cameras sometimes show a particular magenta bar at the top of the frame, resembling a light leak, and this behaviour is exhibited in my copy of the S3x too, although not in any of the included photos.
The TIFF quality has been removed.
Menus
The menus for the most part are the same as the S3, however they added three more languages (French, German and Spanish), and added an option to change the menu selector colour (red, blue, purple, yellow). Instead of blue on black, the menus are now grey on black. The font also seems to be slightly different, appearing more squat with slightly wider margins around the edges of the boxes. In the shooting menu, White Balance got added to the main menu. Deeper in the shooting settings menu, Digital Zoom got added from the Set-up menu and an option to remove image review, 'Rec Review' got added. This was a feature which I found to be lacking in the S3, so I was really happy they added this one.
Strangely, the option for 'Continuous Autofocus' was removed.
Startup speeds
In image review mode, the S3x seems to be faster than the S3 at startup by about one second. In shooting mode, the S3x is ready to go about 4 seconds faster. The startup speeds were one of the few complaints I had about the S3.
Battery The S3x takes the same battery as the rest of the S series, which means it needs to rely on a portable battery if I want to use it for more than 5 minutes. My replacement battery from China is supposed to arrive one of these days...
Rebadges The Toshiba PDR-3310 is a rebadge of this camera.
Overall impression I miss a lot of the character of the S3's images when I use this camera, but I do feel like it's a nicer camera to use overall. I'll see how I feel about it in the coming weeks as I make more use of it.
|
|
Group: Member
Post: 26 (6 liked)
Join date: January 2022
Status: old digital compact enthusiast, owns several kyoceras
|
|
on May 21, 2022 7:37:02 GMT
Last Edit: May 21, 2022 16:53:05 GMT by sofi
I have some new test shots from the S3x, all ISO 240.
Hello biggles3 ,
It seems that is the case indeed, although the Kyocera uses metal for some parts of the body whereas Konica uses plastic. I'm led to believe that Kyocera was actually the one behind them, since all the cameras in the S series seem to be based on this design and use the same battery, whereas Konica's cameras generally settled into a sliding door design before the latter merged with Minolta.
Personally, I think the Konica looks a bit more 'stylish' (or perhaps trendy) with its dots and minimalist straight lines, although I still prefer the S3 both in looks and handling. Also, that iridescent yellow hand grip is unforgettable.
Update to this: Yesterday I opened up my blue Finecam S3 to discover that the front plate is in fact metal. I also found Konica's brochure which also says the body is stainless steel like the S3. So it seems both of these are in fact made from metal—I think they simply have different finishes from the plain S3. Speaking of the brochure, it's interesting to see that Konica's brochure focuses on how stylish the camera is whereas Kyocera's advertising focuses on the size. If there is a good way to upload files I will share the brochure!
Additionally, I found the Sanyo logo pretty clearly etched into the screen and labelled 'assembled in Japan'.
Manual focus
I finally found the following focus distances on an archived S5R spec page, which may or may not be the same across all models:
Batteries My batteries from AliExpress arrived today and they work perfectly! Unlike some SL300R T* aftermarket batteries, there is no issue with the battery being too big to fit in the slot. So if anyone is looking for spare batteries for the Finecam S series, I can confirm their function. They are rated at 3.6V 1000mAh and seemed to retain charge over night. Will update with more metrics for the life soon.
Update: I got over 117 shots on one charge with LCD on and still haven't run out. The S5R uses the same battery and is rated for 130 shots with LCD on. So this seems to be pretty good.
Additionally, some press releases mentioned a 'quick charger' that charges the battery in an hour. The S5R page gives this the model number BC-1. I haven't been able to find any photos for this.
Step zoom
Both the S3 and S3x exhibit step zooming at the following focal lengths (pulled from EXIF data of test shots):
| 1 | 2
| 3
| 4
| 5
| S3 (actual)
| 7.8 | 9.4 | 11 | 13 | 15.6 | S3x (actual)*
| 7.5
| 9.8 | 12.6 | 16.4 | 21.2 | S3 (35mm)
| 38 | 46 | 54
| 63 | 76 | S3x (35mm)
| 37 | 48 | 61 | 80 | 103 |
* For whatever reason, the S3x's EXIF data re- ports different values than the lens assembly itself.
As you can see, they have the same number of steps, one just has a longer zoom. They are both incredibly evenly distributed in terms of magnification, with each focal length being approx. 1.19× the previous one on the S3, and 1.3× on the S3x. With a very low standard deviation (σ≈0.01) this is incredibly regular, so they more or less just divided the focal lengths into five equal numbers. Good to know if anyone pre-visualises their framing at certain focal lengths (ie 35-50-75).
|
|