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on Jul 27, 2021 18:57:47 GMT
Posted: Jul 27, 2021 18:57:47 GMT
It's clear that at some point the Y16 had "X" synch, but at some earlier point it must have had "FP" synch instead. It didn't have both. There are tons of cameras from the same period that have separate "X" and "FP" connections because the "FP" connection has to fire earlier than the "X" connection. The Y16 FLASHGUN indicates that the Y16 had "FP" synch at some time.
The only way to test it is with film since you can't see the film plane on the Y16. Perhaps some of my Y16 cameras are "FP" and some "X", but none are marked "X". I'll keep track of the serial numbers just in case.
The serial #'s might be a clue. All of mine start with the same two digits -- 39. The next set of digits that I have are either two or three digits -- 80, 90, or 100. This is followed by four digits -- probably the individual camera from 0194 to 9130. Perhaps, in my case, the 80's were "FP", and the 100's were "X", for example. Or perhaps the "X" cameras started with two digits other than 39. That might be one way to figure this out.
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on Jul 27, 2021 19:11:09 GMT
Posted: Jul 27, 2021 19:11:09 GMT
... perhaps it was a bespoke connector produced for use with a specific camera or shutter mechanism. That would then leave only the two versions of the Y16 flash - the original and the later one with the extended cord to fit the 16EE. There's one other possibility. I never had a lot of exposure to the process where catalogs and product presentation was needed, but... I do know that occasionally, a prototype was used to shoot the initial layouts, just in case there was a crunch on production falling behind, or pressure to release items for retail earlier than they were expected. That may account for the difference. Both of the retail versions of the Y16's flash I have, use a very short pigtail, with a molded-on connector, just like those in your photos. The manual's photo might show one of the final working prototypes, where the case, reflector, and bracket pieces were finalized, but not the pigtail wiring - so the stand-in had to be substituted in the printed manual, when they didn't yet have a production model to use, and the job had to get to the printer to meet a deadline. I think it would ultimately be inconsequential to the end user what pigtail it had, and whether it matched the photo... as long as it worked when used, and it may have only mattered to Yashica that the basic parts wouldn't be mistaken for some other flash model that didn't exist - or worse - it shouldn't look like some other maker's flash, and not a Yashica brand.
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on Jul 27, 2021 19:15:31 GMT
Posted: Jul 27, 2021 19:15:31 GMT
It's clear that at some point the Y16 had "X" synch, but at some earlier point it must have had "FP" synch instead. It didn't have both. There are tons of cameras from the same period that have separate "X" and "FP" connections because the "FP" connection has to fire earlier than the "X" connection. The Y16 FLASHGUN indicates that the Y16 had "FP" synch at some time. The only way to test it is with film since you can't see the film plane on the Y16. Perhaps some of my Y16 cameras are "FP" and some "X", but none are marked "X". I'll keep track of the serial numbers just in case. The serial #'s might be a clue. All of mine start with the same two digits -- 39. The next set of digits that I have are either two or three digits -- 80, 90, or 100. This is followed by four digits -- probably the individual camera from 0194 to 9130. Perhaps, in my case, the 80's were "FP", and the 100's were "X", for example. Or perhaps the "X" cameras started with two digits other than 39. That might be one way to figure this out. Interesting to note your comment on serial numbers. Almost all the Y16s I've seen start like your cameras with 39 but I see on Ebay there is a kit which includes a camera with a 41102411 serial number.
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on Jul 27, 2021 19:25:18 GMT
Posted: Jul 27, 2021 19:25:18 GMT
That's interesting that it is 41 - 10 - 2411 as opposed to 39 - (80/90/100) - XXXX.
Makes me wonder if there was a "40" series!!!
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on Jul 27, 2021 19:36:39 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 27, 2021 19:39:19 GMT by lumiworx
From the earlier post, and to match the photo of the 4 cameras... Charcoal grey, #10302313, w/ "Made in Japan" and a red X - Teal Blue, #39803139, w/ "Japan" and no 'X, with the last one being the gift kit camera, also in Charcoal grey, has #10200153, "Made in Japan", and no "X".
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on Jul 27, 2021 22:14:58 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 27, 2021 22:16:51 GMT by lumiworx
There might be some debate on whether a camera can be set for a speed associated with both FP and X, as only one would exclude the other. X-sync flashes can be set in-camera by the maker to fire at any number of speeds, and can be as high as 1/125th when a metal-bladed vertical shutter is used. The Y16 could technically be capable of the highest speed. Cloth horizontals have a slower speed limitation, but can be as fast as 1/60th. The opposite isn't going to work the same with FP at any X speed settings, and most certainly won't work with any camera/connector expecting M-sync for traditional bulb flashes. If the camera allows for a flash to be fired arbitrarily from any speed set outside of any X position on it's shutter dial, then it can fire the flash at any speed set by the maker within a range, or even at all speeds, no matter what the (bad) end result might be. I've never taken a single photo on any submini, so I don't know what the practicality is for any brand or type, so I can only go by what there is with supplied instructions, camera markings, and cautions on product boxes or documentation. After having a look through several Yashica manuals for cameras that have used dual flash type triggering, I thought I'd collect what each one offers as sync instructions. The snippets from the manuals on 4 cameras are posted in one place for a quick comparison here: testbed.lumiworx.com/#16274202817506The 4 cameras... Pentamatic (1960), J-3 (1962), J-7 (1968/03), and the TL-Super (1966/04), which had progressed in technology enough to be able to auto-detect what type of flash was connected and set itself to either the X or FP sync accordingly. There is indeed some overlap, and the J-3 seems to be at mid-speed between 1/30th and 1/60th, with the others at 1/60th. It might be that there was a connectivity difference when there are 2 separate plugs, but none of the Y16's offer that as an option. I know this might be TMI... but it's been rather rainy here lately and I have way too much time on my hands, and.....
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on Jul 27, 2021 22:20:10 GMT
Posted: Jul 27, 2021 22:20:10 GMT
I just took a look at the EBAY Y16 offerings that showed the serial #. There were nine of them, and with all the others listed above, it should be a good random sample. Of the nine on EBAY, five started with "39" -- over half. Of these, the second group of digits were, 1, 80, 90, and TWO 91 -- similar to my models. On the remaining four cameras, the first digits were 6, 6, 10, and 41. Perhaps the first 1-2 digits meant a particular version/model -- or a particular market. Perhaps we should get Bletchly Park involved!
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on Jul 28, 2021 14:20:08 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 28, 2021 14:20:28 GMT by biggles3
I just took a look at the EBAY Y16 offerings that showed the serial #. There were nine of them, and with all the others listed above, it should be a good random sample. Of the nine on EBAY, five started with "39" -- over half. Of these, the second group of digits were, 1, 80, 90, and TWO 91 -- similar to my models. On the remaining four cameras, the first digits were 6, 6, 10, and 41. Perhaps the first 1-2 digits meant a particular version/model -- or a particular market. Perhaps we should get Bletchly Park involved! Not a bad idea. If only we could get a certain Mr. A Turing to resolve the enigmas of some of those Yashica serial-numbering systems......
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on Jul 28, 2021 20:55:23 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 29, 2021 20:45:59 GMT by lumiworx
I just took a look at the EBAY Y16 offerings that showed the serial #. There were nine of them, and with all the others listed above, it should be a good random sample. Of the nine on EBAY, five started with "39" -- over half. Of these, the second group of digits were, 1, 80, 90, and TWO 91 -- similar to my models. On the remaining four cameras, the first digits were 6, 6, 10, and 41. Perhaps the first 1-2 digits meant a particular version/model -- or a particular market. Perhaps we should get Bletchly Park involved! You might have a piece of the puzzle to decode with. US auto manufacturers did something similar with the VIN ID's (Vehicle Identification Number) stamped into and on every car ever made here from at least the 1940's. It basically offered the car model, engine type, manufacturing plant and line #, and in many instances it offered the trim package and/or color, or other 'speciality' packages (i.e., police or military body or frame mods) - then included the unique serial number tied to the car as a whole for it's spot on the production line for date/time of manufacture. That serial number piece didn't make sense on it's own unless it was cross referenced to the production schedule, as I don't think they used date patterns to set them, but sequential numbering tied to the assembly plant and it's daily schedule. I won't suggest that Yashica's Y16 numbers were that overly-complicated, but certainly could have been coded in such a way as to determine more than just a simple production serial number for warranty uses.
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on Jul 29, 2021 19:27:13 GMT
Posted: Jul 29, 2021 19:27:13 GMT
They do seem to be extraordinarily long serial numbers for such an inexpensive camera -- but I ran across an old Yashica ad yesterday, and the price of the Y16 was actually more than the price of one of their Yashica TLR cameras of the time -- the 44A.
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on Jul 29, 2021 20:29:27 GMT
Last Edit: Jul 29, 2021 20:52:32 GMT by lumiworx
I'll post this here for now, since it's kind of a tangent to flash units and bending the rules to get them connected to unintended cameras. I've poked around a bit and found there are still a few places that seem to cover a lot of the same ground as Paramount may have, and these might be a source for odd-ball adapters and custom cabling/adapters. biggles3 ... There is a Paramount company dealing with flash related stuff, and it seems to be active and taking orders, but it may not be the same Paramount you're referring to... Paramount Cords - New York, US - standard and (3) custom flash accessories: paramountcords.comBristol Camera - UK - Lots of Hama branded cables: www.bristolcameras.co.uk/c-hama-flash-accessories.htmFlashZebra - Kentucky, US - Produces their own brand of cables/adapters, and sells other brands - Intl. Shipping: flashzebra.com/products.shtmlMichael Bass Designs - Connecticut, US - 100% custom cables and adapters for most flash types, from studio to hot shoe: michaelbass.blogspot.com/2007/09/sync-cords.htmlDLC Dot Line - Illinois, US - Makes a line of their own cables and adapters, and sells other makes: www.dotlinecorp.com/product-category/flash/flash-cords-flash/Impact Lighting - New York, US - Makes a line of flash accessories and cables/adapters: www.impactstudiolighting.com/products/General-Lighting-Accessories/Sync-Cords-- A Primer on different flash types and their connectors: www.jollinger.com/photo/articles/flash-connectors.html
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