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on Feb 22, 2021 16:09:27 GMT
Posted: Feb 22, 2021 16:09:27 GMT
I know this Forum is for Yashica and Contax, but Kyocera muddies the waters.
The Samurai Z is a good example, because we are willing to discuss this camera on this forum.
The Z first appeared labeled only as "Yashica Samurai Z". Later, it was sold as "Kyocera Yashica Samurai Z", and eventually only "Kyocera Samurai Z".
So the question becomes, since we can discuss Kyocera Samurai cameras, are all Kyocera cameras open for discussion here -- or only the Kyocera gear that also appeared under the Yashica (or Contax) label as well?
Just a thought.
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on Feb 22, 2021 20:59:06 GMT
Posted: Feb 22, 2021 20:59:06 GMT
That is a very good question. It's probably one we should throw open to the Members; we could easily open a Kyocera section on the Forum.
My instinct is to confine matters to all equipment that carries a Yashica or Contax name, but where Kyocera continued production of a Yashica model under its own, exclusive branding, that model would be appropriate for the Forum. That would apply to cameras like the Dental-Eye II or the 230 AF and a few others that continued production after Kyocera ended Yashica and Contax production.
The Samurai digital camera might also fall into the same category but many of the small, Kyocera digital models, for example, appear to have no Yashica heritage in them. And don't get me talking about embarrassments like the recent digital Yashica Y35 digiFilm which will have put people off the Yashica brand for life...
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on Feb 22, 2021 23:01:11 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 22, 2021 23:06:26 GMT by lumiworx
My take on heritage on my own Yashica based site, was to stick to those products manufacured by the Yashica company - no matter which of the 2 owners were in control - from the 1949 inception, until the 2015-ish end of the line - where the products are either branded "Yashica" or "Contax", or had underlying parts that were manufactured by, or originated from, Yashica's own engineers and designers and various 'partners' (like Zeiss, etc.). That was more for my own point of interest and base of information.
Having said all that, I don't see any reason a "Kyocera" topic section shouldn't or couldn't be added here. They were the owners of Yashica after all, and the family umbrella covered all 3 camera brands at one point.
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on Feb 23, 2021 1:00:25 GMT
Posted: Feb 23, 2021 1:00:25 GMT
And don't get me talking about embarrassments like the recent digital Yashica Y35 digiFilm which will have put people off the Yashica brand for life...
I understand, but let's face it -- people will come to this Forum wanting to discuss the Y35, for sure.
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on Feb 23, 2021 1:07:49 GMT
Posted: Feb 23, 2021 1:07:49 GMT
Having said all that, I don't see any reason a "Kyocera" topic section shouldn't or couldn't be added here. They were the owners of Yashica after all, and the family umbrella covered all 3 camera brands at one point.
I mainly brought this up after "running into" some interesting Kyocera cameras, and wondered if they ever appeared with a Yashica (or Contax) badge -- like the Samurai Z, and probably the Samurai Z2, too. As pointed out above, the Samurai is not the only Yashica that appeared under the Kyocera label -- and at least one other Yashica SLR (FX-3???) appeared under another label (Braun???, Seagull???).
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on Feb 23, 2021 14:50:20 GMT
Posted: Feb 23, 2021 14:50:20 GMT
A quick look a this WIKI page: camera-wiki.org/wiki/Kyocerashows that there were lots of cameras that were sold under the Yashica label, and under the Kyocera label. It's kind of a gray zone, because they don't mention that some of the Samurai cameras were sold under the two labels separately, and that some cameras have both names on them. And then there are lots of cameras sold only under the Kyocera name.
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on Feb 23, 2021 18:51:16 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 23, 2021 19:00:29 GMT by lumiworx
In digging a bit deeper, it's easy to see why Kyocera would be seen as a 'grey/gray' area, as they seemed to be happy with rehashing P&S cameras at the drop of a hat in the 2000's from who-knows-where. They clearly wanted to ride on Yashica's coattails, in what I can only see as a don't ask, don't tell, kind of way to hide the real origins of who made what at the end of the line. I'm out of my depth on the truth behind that proposition, but my gut tells me that Kyocera may have started dismantling Yashica's R&D soon after the 645 was released in 1999, and there really are 3 distinct brands at some point along the way. Whenever that happened (I don't think there's a doubt that it did - only when it did) they pulled in revenue using someone else's designs and manufacturing (ala, Hong Kong, or elsewhere) and sold them under whatever branding scheme they thought might help to sell the charade... until it became obvious that there was no 'Yashica' left in Yashica cameras, and they eventually carried only a Kyocera label. As for Kyocera-only branding, it seems to be only the very last series of digital P&S cams that had no Yashica labels anywhere. The whole Finecam series may have been totally Kyocera - or in 2 cases, the Contax branded versions of the SL300R/SL400R 'twist-body' digitals - but they look like they have no mention of any Yashica heritage or it's logo. There is a few (5) exceptions to that possible 1999 starting point, and that includes the whacky DA-1 from 1996, and 2 digital Samurai models (1300DG, 2100DG) in 98' and 99'. In some ways that could be them testing the waters with 3rd party suppliers before starting to slowly thin the Yashica hurd of employees. Obviously it didn't keep them from reusing model names like the Samurai, but they definately couldn't be classified - or mistaken - as vertical oriented SLR's like their film namesakes. So... there may not be a lot of heritage in the later Kyocera's, but they were quasi-family. If an additional board called "Kyocera" showed up under 'Other vintage cameras' along side the generic "Cameras" topic... there would be a place to house anything labeled - or co-labeled - Kyocera. Sound reasonable, silly, un-needed? Anything that lands there can be moved if needed, and anything already in other boards can be moved into it by any moderators if they'd choose to. Thoughts?
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on Feb 23, 2021 19:30:47 GMT
Posted: Feb 23, 2021 19:30:47 GMT
This might be a solution looking for a problem. You folks know better than I how much interest there has been on this board regarding Kyocera cameras.
There is a Kyocera/Yashica sub-forum at STEVES-DIGICAM.COM, but most of the discussion seems to be about Yashica gear -- and much of that is NON-digital for some reason.
Then there is the SAMURAI forum on FLICKR -- which I ended up being the moderator because the creator moved on to "greener pastures. Basically no APS or digital discussion there -- it's largely, "Where can I get my Samurai fixed" discussion.
But this is the YASHICA FORUM, which expanded to include CONTAX. We can expand to include KYOCERA, or leave it as is. It's not an "elephant in the room", just a chihuahua.
Does this Forum have a POLL feature?
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on Feb 23, 2021 20:39:13 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 23, 2021 20:43:30 GMT by lumiworx
This might be a solution looking for a problem. You folks know better than I how much interest there has been on this board regarding Kyocera cameras. ... Does this Forum have a POLL feature? Yes... if it's added by a moderator. I created a new topic/poll here: yashica.boards.net/thread/1026/kyocera-brandsI can add to or modify any of the selectable answers too, in case I missed anything.
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on Feb 24, 2021 2:50:51 GMT
Posted: Feb 24, 2021 2:50:51 GMT
I answered the poll, but on second thought, we don't separate out Contax from Yashica. Why separate out Kyocera? Just making it clear that we are open for the discussion of Contax, Yashica, Kyocera-Yashica, and Kyocera gear would seem adequate.
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on Feb 24, 2021 10:35:55 GMT
Posted: Feb 24, 2021 10:35:55 GMT
I answered the poll, but on second thought, we don't separate out Contax from Yashica. Why separate out Kyocera? Just making it clear that we are open for the discussion of Contax, Yashica, Kyocera-Yashica, and Kyocera gear would seem adequate. I agree with Xkaes answer above .... and given that some models have both the Yashica and Kyocera names, a new sub-section for Kyocera might only serve to confuse where such a dual model should be discussed!
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on Feb 25, 2021 2:22:37 GMT
Posted: Feb 25, 2021 2:22:37 GMT
Maybe instead of calling it the Kyocera forum, it could be the Faux-Yashica forum.
PF
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on Feb 25, 2021 11:25:59 GMT
Last Edit: Feb 25, 2021 11:27:37 GMT by xkaes
Or the "Yashica + (Yashica/Contax & Yashica/Kyocera) Forum"
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on Mar 6, 2021 8:00:28 GMT
Posted: Mar 6, 2021 8:00:28 GMT
This might be a solution looking for a problem. You folks know better than I how much interest there has been on this board regarding Kyocera cameras. There is a Kyocera/Yashica sub-forum at STEVES-DIGICAM.COM, but most of the discussion seems to be about Yashica gear -- and much of that is NON-digital for some reason. Then there is the SAMURAI forum on FLICKR -- which I ended up being the moderator because the creator moved on to "greener pastures. Basically no APS or digital discussion there -- it's largely, "Where can I get my Samurai fixed" discussion. But this is the YASHICA FORUM, which expanded to include CONTAX. We can expand to include KYOCERA, or leave it as is. It's not an "elephant in the room", just a chihuahua. Does this Forum have a POLL feature? Nothing bad meant, but Contax Gear was being discussed here even way before you joined the Forum, and made so much Turbo Posts into no Time, xkaes. ;-) A fine weekend to all.
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on Mar 6, 2021 14:02:08 GMT
Posted: Mar 6, 2021 14:02:08 GMT
I understand your point.
I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that this started as a Yashica forum, and added Contax C/Y -- at some point -- obviously.
I do not know the history.
My question is basically "Why add Contax, but not Kyocera?"
But the same could be asked, "Why not REALLY early Contax?". The forum is not just C/Y gear.
What is it? It is called YASHICA forum.
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